On Sunday, October 12, 2014, Hervé BOUTEMY <[email protected]> wrote:

> I like the way Mojo makes common sense explicit without trademark drama:
>
> http://mojo.codehaus.org/development/guidelines.html
>
> - Use the <plugin>-maven-plugin convention for the artifactId of any
> developed
> Maven plugin.
>
> - Use the [Project] Maven Plugin convention to name your plugin e.g. "Acme
> Maven Plugin", unless [Project] reflects a trademark. In such case use
> either
> "Mojo's Acme Maven Plugin" or "Mojo's Maven Plugin for Acme" to clarify it
> is
> a plugin for this product and not by this product.
>
>
That was the result of the great bind I found myself in trying to comply
with the trade mark issues for "Mojo's Apache Cassandra plugin for Apache
Maven" (or whatever dancing games I ended up with)

So you'll not see a disagreement from me on mojo's practices

;-)


>
> like Michael said, with the same common sense:
> "it is all about the order of the words: Maven X Plugin. It
> simply implies that is provided by the Maven team. Which is not."
>
>
> what about artifact id?
> if artifactId=maven-[project]-plugin, how can anybody expect that the name
> or
> description will be "[Project] Maven Plugin"?
> Common sense implies artifactId and name+description will use the same
> order


Yep my pov too


>
>
> Then IMHO, making maven-plugin-plugin enforce the artifact id is
> sufficient to
> help plugin owners discover that they are in wrong situation from a common
> sense perspective: no doubt they will be interested in improving their
> explanations to their users.
>
>
> And should we make core or enforcer check this?
> I'm not a fan: the plugin owner is in wrong situation, not the plugin user.


Exactly


>
> Of course, if the plugin owner can't understand common sense, we can add a
> warning in core to help him understand the issue when his users will report
> him the warning, before we take it at trademark level: yes, we'll take it
> the
> hard/trademark way if the easy/common sense way can't make it.
>
>
> that's the way I feel it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hervé
>
> Le dimanche 12 octobre 2014 09:43:08 Stephen Connolly a écrit :
> > On Sunday, 12 October 2014, Michael Osipov <[email protected]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > Am 2014-10-12 um 00:30 schrieb Stephen Connolly:
> > >> On Saturday, 11 October 2014, Michael Osipov <[email protected]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>  Am 2014-10-11 um 21:28 schrieb Robert Munteanu:
> > >>>  On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Michael Osipov <
> [email protected] <javascript:;>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>> Well said...
> > >>>>> I guess it is all about the order of the words: Maven X Plugin. It
> > >>>>> simply
> > >>>>> implies that is provided by the Maven team. Which is not.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But is the order relevant in the artifactId or in the public display
> > >>>> name? I think it's simpler to convince plugin maintainers to change
> > >>>> the public display name ( Maven X Plugin -> X Plugin for Maven )
> > >>>> rather than the artifactId.
> > >>>
> > >>> I do not hang on the specific order, a correct display name should
> > >>> suffices but Stephen was pretty obvious about trademark violation.
> > >>
> > >> Look, if we - as the PMC - want to open things up and allow other
> usages,
> > >> that's fine by me. We should run it by [email protected] and if they are
> > >> fine
> > >> with us opening the scope more then we put it to a vote and decide.
> > >>
> > >> Right now, what I recall, is we only voted "___ maven plugin" as the
> form
> > >> of use that we allowed for our mark.
> > >>
> > >> Projects own their marks, and are allowed to grant usage forms that
> they
> > >> decide to grant. So far we have only granted one from, we can grant
> > >> others,
> > >> but it would need to be a conscious decision.
> > >
> > > I do not think that the display name is a real problem but just the
> > > artifact id name pattern. Restriction has been made by the PMC and not
> by
> > > [email protected], right?
> >
> > It's actually the other way. The mark has to be protected and the PMC can
> > say that certain allowed usage patterns will be permitted.
> >
> > So if the PMC ha done nothing then we'd have to issue C&Ds to anything
> that
> > has maven in it and is related to our build tool in any way.
> >
> > We have said, if it is a plugin for maven, we will allow the usage of our
> > mark provided you use the form "___ maven plugin"
> >
> > Artifact is vs display name? I don't see a difference. Lots of people
> call
> > plugins by their artifact id... If we don't protect our mark it ceases to
> > be a mark... Now we *could* go to the board and say: "we would like to
> > release our mark is that ok" and see what answer we get, but seriously,
> > what do we gain?
> >
> > From my PoV, let's just turn on enforcement for people building maven
> > plugins... If there is an outcry then we can vote to allow the other form
> > of usage and roll another release
> >
> > > The question is, does the PMC insist on that pattern even if, as Benson
> > > has mentioned, the group id is different?
> >
> > You must defend your mark. One of our marks is "maven" in connection with
> > build toolchains. Group is irrelevant.
> >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
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> <javascript:;>
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>
>
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