Hi Renan, > Renaming the topic because apparently we need to have this discussion again.
Thanks for bringing this up again, because it is indeed still a problem. > Therefore, the PMC *must* add members or the project *will* fizzle out > and die. > > I'd also be curious to see if we even have enough PMC members to form a > quorum at the moment as I only see Andrei Sekretenko reviewing pull > requests on Github and the new chair Qian Zhang on emails. The project > needs three PMC members for the project to be considered in a good state > according to the Apache guidelines [0]. > I must say I'm also a bit confused. The new project chair was elected exactly a month ago [1]. Since then, the only thing I have seen - there might be more going on being the scenes - is a single thread calling for input on new technical direction [2], which as several people mentioned before is not the most important issue the project is facing right now. As far as I can tell, nothing as been done by the PMC/project chair to address the more fundamental issue of the health of the community. Now, Andrei has been doing a great job at reviewing MRs, but as mentioned before he only has so much time available, and the project can't have only one active committer. So it would be good to hear from the project chair what they are planning to do, if anything, to address this situation. >From some private conversations I know that they have been busy with other obligations in the past month so maybe it's only a bad timing and just a transient state, however I don't think it's viable to continue if even the project chair doesn't have any time to dedicate to the project - not even replying to this thread. > At this point I suggest the PMC does a roll call and get Apche board > members involved so that they can be aware of the situation. I'm not familiar with the ASF but yes it does sounds like a possible course of action? Cheers, Charles [1] https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mesos-dev/202104.mbox/%3CCAE0xwObaHPiSFM3KrY1SL--E864L48o_LF2E7PP2%3DUu3rk99gQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E [2] https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/mesos-dev/202105.mbox/%3CCABY6VOaOxSp%2BeMJm_jSTdY%3DD5Qp%3DT%2B89Cvaxqw7GLbFYr1qzew%40mail.gmail.com%3E > > -Renan > > [0]https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html > > On 5/24/21 10:21 AM, Charles-François Natali wrote: > > Hey, > > > > Le lun. 24 mai 2021 à 14:12, Qian Zhang <zhq527...@gmail.com> a écrit : > >>> several fixing bugs which basically make Mesos unusable on a recent Linux > >> distro > >> Can you please elaborate a bit on this? Do you mean Mesos not working on a > >> recent Linux distro? If so, I think we can start to fix the issues and > >> maybe do a patch release for that. > > Yes, there are several issues on recent Linux distributions, e.g. > > Debian Bullseye: > > - https://github.com/apache/mesos/pull/387: compilaiton error, > > although it's only in master not in the last release > > - https://github.com/apache/mesos/pull/388: problem with the freezer > > cgroup based task killer which causes over a dozen test to fail and > > can leave the freezer frozen, tasks in uninterruptible state etc > > - https://github.com/apache/mesos/pull/384: problem parsing > > ld.so.cache which also breaks a lot of things > > > > You were tagged in some of this MRs, I tagged you in all of them, it'd > > be great if you could have a look :). > > > > Cheers, > > > >> > >> Regards, > >> Qian Zhang > >> > >> > >> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 2:57 AM Charles-François Natali > >> <cf.nat...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hey, > >>> > >>> Sorry for being a killjoy and repeating myself, but as mentioned in > >>> the past, I don't think that technical direction is the most important > >>> problem right now - community is. > >>> Coming up with medium/long-term technical roadmap doesn't do much if > >>> there are no contributors to implement them, and users to use them. > >>> > >>> The following issues which have been brought up are still not resolved: > >>> - very few committers willing to review and merge MRs - currently only > >>> Andrei Sekretenko is doing that, and I'm sure he's busy with his day > >>> job so only has that much bandwidth > >>> - very few people contribute MRs and triage/address JIRA issues - > >>> AFAICT it's pretty much Andreas and me > >>> > >>> So I think the first thing to do would be to address those problems. > >>> Some suggestions which come to mind: > >>> - to the remaining committers who'd still like to salvage the project, > >>> please take some time to review and merge MRs - > >>> https://github.com/apache/mesos/pulls has a few open, several fixing > >>> bugs which basically make Mesos unusable on a recent Linux distro > >>> - to the various users who've said they were interested in keeping the > >>> project alive: start contributing. It doesn't have to be anything big, > >>> just get familiar with the code base: > >>> * start going through JIRA and triage bugs, closing invalid/stale > >>> ones, tackling small issues > >>> * submit MRs so that the test suite passes on your OS > >>> * submit MRs to merge various commits you have in your private repos > >>> if applicable > >>> > >>> Then in a few months, once the project is back to having a small > >>> active contributors base, they can together decide how to take the > >>> project forward, and start addressing larger projects. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Charles > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Le jeu. 20 mai 2021 à 18:16, Gregoire Seux <g.s...@criteo.com> a écrit : > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> Interesting set of suggestions! Here are a few comments: > >>>> > >>>> * Mesos feels simple to deploy (only very few components: zookeeper, > >>> masters and agents), customization is done mostly through configuration > >>> files. I don't think there is a strong need to make it easier (even though > >>> I've used Mesos for years, so I'm pretty used to the difficulty if any) > >>>> * Having to manage Zookeeper adds some complexity but since > >>> Zookeeper piece is required to operate Marathon (which is our main > >>> framework), I don't see much value in the investment required to get rid > >>> of > >>> this dependency. > >>>> * Taking advantage of NUMA topology by default would be a good > >>> addition although I don't see it as strategic (at least we have solved > >>> this > >>> on our clusters with custom modules) > >>>> * I would love to see improvement on masters scalability for large > >>> clusters (our largest cluster is 3500 nodes and may start to suffer from > >>> the actor model) > >>>> Something that I see as a very significant drawback to the ecosystem at > >>> large is the difficulty to write frameworks. In addition to this, most > >>> open-source frameworks feel abandoned. Without good frameworks, Mesos > >>> value > >>> really decreases a lot (although it is very technically strong). > >>>> I think, making Mesos thrive would necessarily go through a solution to > >>> this issue. > >>>> Something that I'd see as strategic would be the ability to deploy > >>> complex workloads on Mesos without having to write a new framework. Random > >>> idea: make Mesos really usable as a backend for Kubernetes (as a virtual > >>> kubelet). This would remove a lot of barriers to use Mesos as a strong > >>> engine to operate a fleet of servers while allowing to use the Kubernetes > >>> API that apparently everybody loves. > >>>> What do you think? > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Grégoire Seux > >>>>
