I wanted to add back onto this thread after putting some more thought into
it.
I like Slack for the type of small developer "what's going on here?" type
discussions. That's the kind of thing I like being real-time ("Hey, full
dev is acting weird", "What's the basic layout of this stuff?", "Anybody
else seen this test failure?", etc.). I think we've been pretty good about
keeping our decision type dev discussions to the list (e.g. this exact
conversation).
We've been doing this more, but I would like to see more of the user and
troubleshooting move to the list. I think we've gotten a bit better about
it as we've settled into Slack, but having that sort of helpful stuff
exposed and searchable for users who come in afterwards is a big selling
point of the lists, imo.
To add onto this, I'd probably like to see
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/METRON/Community+Resources#CommunityResources-ApacheMetronCommunityResources
(and any other relevant links) updated to emphasize a Slack focus on
developing Metron itself, and the user lists for configuration,
troubleshooting, etc.
Essentially, I'm proposing:
Dev list / Jira / PRs as usual for any actual decisions + concrete feature
discussion/review.
Slack for Metron development "Hey, anyone seen this or have insight or a
starting point?" and "I'm seeing something weird in our tests" type stuff
User list for usage and troubleshooting questions. Generally, discussions
like this in Slack should be redirected to the user list.
Is this a reasonable way separate our concerns here?
On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:37 AM Michael Miklavcic <
michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, I'm also surprised by that comment about the mailing list activity.
> Our dev/user list discussions are by far more active than they've ever
> been. Just have a look at the list of DISCUSS threads that have come up in
> the past few months and it's clear that not only participation has
> increased, but diversity of topic and participant.
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 8:08 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Not for nothing, but at least according to the last board report that I
> > submitted, the user@ traffic is up 100% and the dev list traffic is flat
> > as
> > compared to last quarter. That's not to say that we couldn't stand more
> > discussion on the lists, but a lot of the dev discussion happens on
> github
> > and JIRA and I'm happy to see an uptick in user traffic.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:05 AM Otto Fowler <ottobackwa...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I wouldn’t be so quick to related the slack discussion with perceived
> > > activity on the list.
> > > That is more do to the other things that are bigger issues.
> > >
> > >
> > > On October 24, 2018 at 07:15:30, Nick Allen (n...@nickallen.org)
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have heard recently people thought Metron is sort of dead just
> > because
> > > the mailing list is not so active anymore!
> > >
> > > That is exactly my concern.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:49 AM Ali Nazemian <alinazem...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I kind of expect to have Slack for more dev related discussions
> rather
> > > than
> > > > user QA. I guess it is quite common to expect mailing list to be used
> > for
> > > > the purpose of knowledge sharing to make sure it will be accessible
> by
> > > > other users as well. Of course, it is a trade-off that most of the
> > other
> > > > Apache projects decided to accept the risk of keeping user related
> > > > discussions out of Slack/IRC. However, it sometimes happens to see
> the
> > > > mixture of questions coming to Slack. I have heard recently people
> > > thought
> > > > Metron is sort of dead just because the mailing list is not so active
> > > > anymore!
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Ali
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 8:23 AM Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Agreed, the benefit of the mailing list is that it’s searchable by
> > > > ponymail
> > > > > and the major search engines.
> > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 17:18 Nick Allen <n...@nickallen.org>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know that it is the same kind of searchable. Is it being
> > > > indexed
> > > > > > by the major search engines? I have never used a search engine
> and
> > > > > > uncovered the answer to my problem in a Slack archive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 5:05 PM Otto Fowler <
> > ottobackwa...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > According to Greg Stein, an infra admin on the NiFi slack, the
> > ASF
> > > > > slack
> > > > > > > that metron is in IS the standard plan, not the free one and is
> > > > > > searchable
> > > > > > > past 10,000 messages.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On October 22, 2018 at 15:35:51, Michael Miklavcic (
> > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ...From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think
> > > > there's
> > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also
> > easier
> > > > to
> > > > > > link
> > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
> searches...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/1aa85bc13d41e04a1f85c3100c2b803abe35d79b54062bbeaab83ace@%3Cdev.metron.apache.org%3E
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How very Inception.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 1:32 PM Michael Miklavcic <
> > > > > > > michael.miklav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I just want to point out that we currently have 32 members in
> > the
> > > > > > Metron
> > > > > > > > Slack channel which I personally think is a great sign. This
> is
> > > > good
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > community perspective and helps foster interactive sessions
> > where
> > > > > > > required.
> > > > > > > > From an archival and broader reach point of view, I do think
> > > > there's
> > > > > > > > something to be said about using the mailing list. It's also
> > > easier
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > link
> > > > > > > > to Q/A threads from the mailing list archives and do
> searches.
> > As
> > > > > > such, I
> > > > > > > > would also go along with Nick's suggestion and urge members
> to
> > > > prefer
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > user/dev list where possible.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 10:51 AM Justin Leet <
> > > > justinjl...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> If we want to push more discussion to the dev list, my
> obvious
> > > > > follow
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > >> question then is "What are we hoping to get out of
> > > Slack/irc/other
> > > > > > > >> interactive medium?". What discussion would we even want on
> > > there,
> > > > > if
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > >> can't have decisions and don't want usage/support?
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:44 PM Casey Stella <
> > > ceste...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > I am of 2 minds, but I tend to agree. On the one hand,
> it's
> > > > > > definitely
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > preference that we use the mailing lists for the reasons
> you
> > > > > stated
> > > > > > > (and
> > > > > > > >> > also because not everyone has access to slack generally).
> On
> > > the
> > > > > > other
> > > > > > > >> > hand, I think an interactive medium like Slack has a lot
> of
> > > > > > advantages
> > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > >> > terms of user satisfaction. Ultimately, though, we may
> > satisfy
> > > 1
> > > > > > user
> > > > > > > >> at
> > > > > > > >> > the cost of not persisting the discussion and satisfying
> > many
> > > > > users.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > I'll go along with a specific preference to drive more
> > > > discussion
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > mailing list.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Casey
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 12:18 PM Nick Allen <
> > > n...@nickallen.org
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > It seems that we are seeing a lot of Metron usage and
> > > support
> > > > > > > >> questions
> > > > > > > >> > on
> > > > > > > >> > > the Slack Channel.
> > > > > > > >> > > These are questions that previously would have been
> > directed
> > > > to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> User
> > > > > > > >> > or
> > > > > > > >> > > Dev mailing lists. Since this is occurring in the Slack
> > > > Channel,
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > > conversations are not archived.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > In my opinion, this is not good for the Metron
> community.
> > > > Having
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > >> > > persisted in a discoverable form (like a mailing list
> > > archive)
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > >> only
> > > > > > > >> > > helps support current users, but also helps *potential*
> > > users
> > > > > > > >> understand
> > > > > > > >> > > how Metron is being used.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Does anyone else agree or disagree? At a minimum, I feel
> > we
> > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> do
> > > > > > > >> > > something to direct these conversations back to the
> > mailing
> > > > > list.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > A.Nazemian
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
