The known problem with Win7 now is https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271. Because I've upgraded Win10, so I can't reproduce this problem, and I can't solve it. I am not sure whether the problem has been solved now. I am sorry about this
shiwen hu <yajiedes...@gmail.com> 于2018年9月3日周一 下午7:43写道： > At present, all precompiled packages are win10-compiled. > There are no large-scale reports that can no run win7. > Therefore, there is no problem for all precompiled package users to stop > or continue supporting. > > Timur Shenkao <t...@timshenkao.su> 于2018年9月3日周一 下午5:14写道： > >> Users live like you described: install mxnet, then import fails, switch to >> TF or Pytorch and forget mxnet forever. >> >> Only very stubborn users spend time in loop: compiling / building wheel / >> conda package on external machine, copy to destination machine, fail with >> some dependency error, etc. Until patience is lost or something workable >> is >> created. >> >> On Monday, September 3, 2018, Lin Yuan <apefor...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Thanks for all the constructive discussions. I have a few thoughts on >> this >> > topic: >> > >> > When we say we support a particular platform X, I suppose it means the >> > following processes in production: >> > >> > 1) Active developer support, the minimum of which is a clear >> instruction to >> > build from source on X. >> > 2) Thorough test in each release/patch on X. >> > 3) Continuous integration on X >> > >> > It seems today we are missing all of them for Windows 7 (correct me if >> I am >> > wrong). I have found issues opened over 9 months ago #9271 >> > <https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271> which fails >> simply >> > by importing mxnet and exiting on Windows 7. Thus, I am wondering how >> many >> > users are actually running MXNet on Windows 7 for meaningful work. How >> did >> > live by with such an obvious blocker. >> > >> > If we do have a large active user base to support, we then should >> dedicate >> > resource to implement the above three items in order to claim that we >> > support Windows 7. After all, maybe we should change the thread topic to >> > "Should we start supporting Windows 7 again?" :) >> > >> > I really appreciate your valuable comments. Have a great labor day >> weekend! >> > >> > Lin >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 12:37 PM Timur Shenkao <t...@timshenkao.su> >> wrote: >> > >> > > >> I also believe that it is possible to install more recent >> >> versions >> > of >> > > Visual Studio on Windows 7. >> > > >> > > It's about security reasons and AD permissions and bought licenses for >> > VS, >> > > not about general technical impossibility of installation of >> up-to-date >> > > versions. >> > > >> > > On Sunday, September 2, 2018, Marco de Abreu >> > > <marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: >> > > >> > > > Thanks for the data and these quite important points. I agree and >> > hereby >> > > > change my vote to -1. >> > > > >> > > > Barber, Christopher <christopher.bar...@analog.com> schrieb am >> So., 2. >> > > > Sep. >> > > > 2018, 18:56: >> > > > >> > > > > FWIW, my company is only beginning to transition to Windows 10 >> now, >> > and >> > > > my >> > > > > past experience would lead me to believe that many enterprises >> stick >> > > with >> > > > > old versions of Windows long past when you think they would. >> > > > > >> > > > > Seems to me that if you are unwilling to deprecate python 2.7, >> then >> > > > > continuing to support Windows 7 is a no-brainer. You are more >> likely >> > to >> > > > get >> > > > > users to switch to python 3 than you are to get them to install a >> new >> > > > > operating system. >> > > > > >> > > > > And do you really want to drop support for platforms that your >> > > > competitors >> > > > > still support? Given MXNet's market share, I wouldn't dream of >> > > dropping a >> > > > > platform until after the more popular frameworks have already done >> > so. >> > > > > >> > > > > I also believe that it is possible to install more recent >> versions of >> > > > > Visual Studio on Windows 7. >> > > > > >> > > > > On 9/2/18, 1:57 AM, "kellen sunderland" < >> > kellen.sunderl...@gmail.com> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > Google analytics are sadly probably the best numbers we're >> going >> > to >> > > > > get. >> > > > > Of course these numbers are likely to over-represent windows >> > usage, >> > > > as >> > > > > I'm >> > > > > sure many people are looking up documentation on a windows >> > machine >> > > > > while >> > > > > ssh'd into a cloud instance or IoT device. >> > > > > >> > > > > What's the trend over time for these numbers Mu? Is Windows 7 >> > > usage >> > > > > relatively stable over the last year? >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:58 AM Mu Li <muli....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > According to google analytics, ~12% users who visited >> mxnet's >> > > > > website are >> > > > > > using Windows 7. It's a significant number. Even though we >> > cannot >> > > > > conclude >> > > > > > that all of these users will run MXNet on Windows 7, I >> suggest >> > we >> > > > > still >> > > > > > support win7. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > BTW, anyone who can access mxnet's google analytics report >> can >> > > > > verify this >> > > > > > number by following this instruction: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1340778/detecting- >> > > > windows-7-with-google-analytics >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:55 PM Steffen Rochel < >> > > > > steffenroc...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I support a data driven decision. Any suggestions how we >> can >> > > > obtain >> > > > > > insight >> > > > > > > about OS usage of the MXNet user community? >> > > > > > > Can we get such information from pip install statistics or >> > > should >> > > > > we >> > > > > > > perform a user poll on the discussion forum? >> > > > > > > On the other hand the lack of data should not prevent us >> from >> > > > > moving >> > > > > > > forward and dropping support for outdated OS. >> > > > > > > In any case we would have to announce dropping a platform >> > > support >> > > > > at >> > > > > > least >> > > > > > > a release in advance. >> > > > > > > Steffen >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM Sheng Zha < >> > > zhash...@apache.org> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi Kellen, >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I don't have >> the >> > > > > usage data, >> > > > > > > so >> > > > > > > > I refrained from voting. If any of the voters have such >> > data >> > > > I'd >> > > > > love >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > see it too. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > -sz >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland < >> > > > > kellen.sunderl...@gmail.com >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > I haven't spoken to anyone about the decision (as I'm >> > > > > currently on an >> > > > > > > > > island in the med) but to me the quick +1s are likely >> a >> > > > result >> > > > > of >> > > > > > this >> > > > > > > > > being a fairly straightforward decision. The factors >> > that >> > > > > went into >> > > > > > my >> > > > > > > > > thinking were (1) prioritizing growing platforms >> rather >> > > than >> > > > > > shrinking >> > > > > > > > > platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather than shirt >> > term) >> > > > and >> > > > > (2) >> > > > > > > > earning >> > > > > > > > > our customers' trust. Claiming support for a platform >> > when >> > > > we >> > > > > can't >> > > > > > > > > realistically deliver it would lose us trust. I'd >> prefer >> > > to >> > > > > over >> > > > > > > deliver >> > > > > > > > > and under promise when it come to windows 7 for this >> > > reason. >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Now on the flip side one thing I would see as >> valuable is >> > > to >> > > > > try and >> > > > > > > get >> > > > > > > > > windows builds working with clang. This could be >> > > beneficial >> > > > > in the >> > > > > > > sense >> > > > > > > > > that it would be easy to maintain for mxnet devs and >> > allow >> > > us >> > > > > to use >> > > > > > > > modern >> > > > > > > > > cpp on older windows machines without using vs >> > 2013(which I >> > > > > consider >> > > > > > a >> > > > > > > > > non-starter with our codebase). >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > You have peaked my curiousity though Sheng. How many >> > win7 >> > > > > users does >> > > > > > > > MXNet >> > > > > > > > > have relative to macos/Linux? >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha < >> > > szha....@gmail.com> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Hi Yuan, >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > No problem. This is an issue that's worth having a >> > clear >> > > > > > definition, >> > > > > > > so >> > > > > > > > > > there's nothing wrong about your proposal, and >> thanks >> > for >> > > > > bringing >> > > > > > > > this up. >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I'm more concerned about the seemingly unanimous >> votes >> > on >> > > > > dropping >> > > > > > > > support >> > > > > > > > > > on a platform without seeing the supporting evidence >> > that >> > > > > it's the >> > > > > > > > right >> > > > > > > > > > thing. It is as if everyone who participated in the >> > vote >> > > > are >> > > > > > already >> > > > > > > > on the >> > > > > > > > > > same page, and somehow I'm the only one that's not. >> But >> > > the >> > > > > only >> > > > > > > > argument I >> > > > > > > > > > hear so far is that it's technically not >> > straightforward >> > > to >> > > > > > continue >> > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > support, which, coming from Amazon folks, certainly >> > > doesn't >> > > > > sound >> > > > > > > > > > customer-obsessed. >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -sz >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM Lin Yuan < >> > > > > apefor...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sheng, >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this concern. The problem now >> is >> > > that >> > > > we >> > > > > > cannot >> > > > > > > > even >> > > > > > > > > > > build MXNet on Windows 7 because the build process >> > > > > requires MS VS >> > > > > > > > 2015 w/ >> > > > > > > > > > > update 3 which is incompatible on Windows 7. This >> > > leaves >> > > > > many >> > > > > > > > Windows 7 >> > > > > > > > > > > related open issues on github without any timely >> > > > response. >> > > > > In my >> > > > > > > > opinion, >> > > > > > > > > > > having no response to users' request is probably >> even >> > > > > worse than >> > > > > > > > letting >> > > > > > > > > > > them know the limitation of OS support. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > To minimize the impact to current Windows 7 >> users, we >> > > can >> > > > > provide >> > > > > > > > PyPi >> > > > > > > > > > > package for Windows 7 in this release but defer >> the >> > bug >> > > > > fix and >> > > > > > > > feature >> > > > > > > > > > > enhancement to later Windows OS version. Based on >> > > users' >> > > > > > feedbacks, >> > > > > > > > we >> > > > > > > > > > can >> > > > > > > > > > > then officially discontinue the Windows 7 support >> in >> > > the >> > > > > next >> > > > > > MXNet >> > > > > > > > > > > release. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I will appreciate your comments. >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Lin >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37 PM Sheng Zha < >> > > > > szha....@gmail.com> >> > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Are any of the votes based on any measure of >> user >> > > > > impact, if we >> > > > > > > > indeed >> > > > > > > > > > > > decide not to fix the current problems? >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -sz >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko < >> > > > > > lupe...@gmail.com >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising this Lin! >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting to do it as part of MXNet >> 1.3? >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:14 AM Srivastava, >> Rohit >> > > > > Kumar < >> > > > > > > > > > > > > srivastava....@buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/29/18, 8:39 AM, "sandeep >> krishnamurthy" < >> > > > > > > > > > > > > sandeep.krishn...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 Thanks for bringing this up. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de >> > > Abreu >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.invalid> >> > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen >> > > > > sunderland < >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kellen.sunderl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding) >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM >> Anirudh >> > > > > Acharya < >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > anirudhk...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for discontinuing. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM >> > Naveen >> > > > > Swamy < >> > > > > > > > > > > > > mnnav...@gmail.com >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 to stop supporting Win7 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54 PM >> Lin >> > > > Yuan >> > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > > > > > apefor...@gmail.com> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Community, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Currently, our MXNet >> installation >> > > > > guide for >> > > > > > > > Windows >> > > > > > > > > > > does >> > > > > > > > > > > > > not >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > work >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft >> Visual >> > > > > Studio 2015 >> > > > > > is >> > > > > > > > not >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > supported on >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error- >> > > > specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/ >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In addition, MSFT ended >> > > “Mainstream” >> > > > > support >> > > > > > > for >> > > > > > > > > > > Windows >> > > > > > > > > > > > 7 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > in 2015 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows- >> > > > lifecycle-fact-sheet >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ). >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, it is not possible >> for >> > > > > developers >> > > > > > to >> > > > > > > > build >> > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > verify >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fix on Windows 7 platform. >> Given >> > > that >> > > > > there >> > > > > > > have >> > > > > > > > been >> > > > > > > > > > > > > several >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > issues >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > about >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet error on Windows 7 >> > > (issue#9271 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > > >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271 >> > > > > > > > > > > >, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > issue >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #8921 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > > >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921 >> > > > > > > > > > > >, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > issue >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #11163 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < >> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/ >> > incubator-mxnet/issues/11163 >> > > > > > > > > > > > >), >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it will >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > add >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more burden on developers in >> the >> > > > > future if we >> > > > > > > > were to >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > continue >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supporting >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows 7. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I therefore would like to >> propose >> > > > that >> > > > > we >> > > > > > > > discontinue >> > > > > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > support >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on Windows 7 in the next >> release. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Specifically, this means the >> > > > following >> > > > > > required >> > > > > > > > > > > actions: >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) state the discontinuation >> of >> > > > > Windows 7 >> > > > > > > > support in >> > > > > > > > > > > the >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > release >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > note >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) update the MXNet webpage if >> > > > Windows >> > > > > > version >> > > > > > > is >> > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) update the open Github >> issues >> > > > > related to >> > > > > > > > Windows 7 >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please share your thoughts >> about >> > > this >> > > > > > proposal >> > > > > > > > and/or >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggest if >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any other missing action item >> > from >> > > > the >> > > > > above. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lin >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sandeep Krishnamurthy >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >
