Hi, On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 at 17:01, Leonard Lausen <leon...@lausen.nl> wrote:
> Hi, > > Pedro stated "Seems 3.6 is a reasonable choice." and there have been a > few +1 after Chaitanya's reply to Pedro. I would like to check if these > only refer to Chaitanya's mail about a dedicated "improvement" effort or > about dropping 3.5. > > Thus two questions: > > 1) Are there any concerns about dropping Python 3.5? Now is your chance to > speak up if you think so. > > Ubuntu 16.04 LTS defaults to Python 3.5.x . The LTS releases are supported for 5 years, so for 16.04 LTS it ends in 1.5 years. I'm not saying you should wait for 1.5 more years, people can upgrade to 18.04 LTS after all, but may I suggest you make this switch in a major release only? More specifically, ensure that Python 3.6-only code doesn't accidentally gets merged into a 1.5.X patch release. thanks, Lieven > 2) Should new MXNet 1.x (experimental?) functionality (for example numpy > compatible interface) only target the Python versions to be supported in > MXNet 2? The current plan is to make many MXNet 2 features available as > "opt-in" in MXNet 1.x. Supporting older Python versions on MXNet 1 for > these features may impact design and functionality and create > unnecessary technical debt. > > > Personally I argue for targeting only 3.6+ as > - 3.5 will go EOL in 388 days and a potential MXNet 2 release together > with our Semantic Versioning backwards compatibility guarantees would > keep us "stuck" on 3.5 for the years to come. JetBrains 2018 survey > showed only 11% of users used 3.5. > - 3.6 introduced a number of fundamental and relevant changes that we > may want to build on and for which we can expect user adoption to > increase over the years (thus MXNet should try to be compatible). > - "PEP 526: Syntax for variable annotations" which we may even be able > to use for shape typing along the lines of numpy > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vpMse4c6DrWH5rq2tQSx3qwP_m_0lyn-Ij4WHqQqRHY/ > - asyncio module is stable with 3.6 and associated 3.7 language > features such as contextvars only have backports for 3.6. Some parts > of Gluon currently rely on thread-local state, which is not correct > if users call MXNet from within asyncio code. > Locking ourselves to 3.5 means we can't support these and may provide > a bad user-experience in coming years. > - Part of the Ecosystem (GluonNLP) only support 3.6+ anyways. > > I would also like to cite James MacGlashan to point out how targeting > 3.6+ could help usability and attract more users: > > Pipe dream: I'd love it if Mxnet not only dropped Python 2 support for > a more consistent design, but also went all in on Python 3.6 for type > hint integration. There are enough different types involved in MXNet > that types can help clarify usage, particularly for disambiguating > symbol vs ndarray vs list vs tuple; tuple of ints rather than tuple of > floats; etc. > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8703#issuecomment-520881450 > > Thus we can see targeting 3.6+ as a great opportunity for the MXNet > project! > > Best regards > Leonard > > "Srivastava, Rohit Kumar" <srivastava....@buckeyemail.osu.edu> writes: > > +1 > > > > On 7/19/19, 12:59 PM, "Zhu Zhaoqi" <zhaoqizh...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > +1 > > > > Lin Yuan <apefor...@gmail.com> 于2019年7月19日周五 上午12:06写道： > > > > > +1 > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 12:03 AM Chaitanya Bapat < > chai.ba...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > +1 definitely. > > > > > > > > Going forward, > > > > MXNet repo as it stands has ~95,000+ lines of Python code [1] > > > > OpenEdx has a million (10x) LOC and this mammoth effort of > porting from > > > > Python 2 to 3 is treated as a separate project named Incremental > > > > Improvement. [2] > > > > We can take inspiration from them and have a similar effort by > calling > > > > action from the community. Issues can be maintained in a > separate JIRA > > > > board to track high priority tasks. > > > > > > > > Also, I can see gluon-nlp adding themselves to the Python3 > statement. > > > Once > > > > the vote passes, one of us could submit a PR to add MXNet as > well. > > > > > > > > [1] https://codeclimate.com/ > > > > [2] > > > > > > > > https://open.edx.org/blog/python-2-is-ending-we-need-to-move-to-python-3/ > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 18 Jul 2019 at 21:39, Kshitij Kalambarkar < > > > > kshitijkalambar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 19, 2019, 04:28 Pedro Larroy < > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Seems 3.6 is a reasonable choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 2:15 PM Marco de Abreu < > > > > marco.g.ab...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at EOL is certainly a good idea! I think once we > get closer > > > > to > > > > > > > deprecation, we can check adoption statistics to make a > > > well-informed > > > > > > > decision that gives us the most advantages without > dropping the > > > ball > > > > > on a > > > > > > > majority of users (or supporting a branch that is going > EOL soon). > > > A > > > > > > survey > > > > > > > from 2018 [1] determined the following distribution: > > > > > > > 3.5: 11% > > > > > > > 3.6: 54% > > > > > > > 3.7: 30% > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deprecation for 3.5 is scheduled for 2020-09-13 [2]. > Deprecation > > > for > > > > > 3.6 > > > > > > is > > > > > > > scheduled for 2021-12-23 [2].Deprecation for 3.7 is > scheduled > > > > > > > for 2023-06-27 [2]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Following the trend, I'd say that it would be a decision > between > > > > Python > > > > > > 3.6 > > > > > > > and 3.7. Later on, I'd propose to check recent surveys and > also > > > have > > > > a > > > > > > > separate thread to determine if there's anything we're > missing > > > (e.g. > > > > a > > > > > > big > > > > > > > company being unable to use Python 3.7). What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Marco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]: > > > > > https://www.jetbrains.com/research/python-developers-survey-2018/ > > > > > > > [2]: > https://devguide.python.org/#status-of-python-branches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 9:42 PM Yuan Tang < > terrytangy...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would suggest supporting Python 3.5+ since the earlier > versions > > > > > have > > > > > > > > reached end-of-life status: > > > > > > > > > https://devguide.python.org/devcycle/#end-of-life-branches > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 3:36 PM Pedro Larroy < > > > > > > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would simplify CI, reduce costs and more. I think > a > > > followup > > > > > > > > > question is what would be the mininum Python3 version > > > supported? > > > > > > > > > Depending on that we might be able to use type > annotations for > > > > > > example > > > > > > > > > or other features. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pedro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 12:07 PM Yuan Tang < > > > > > terrytangy...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 2:51 PM Yuxi Hu < > > > darreny...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:31 AM Tong He < > > > > hetong...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tong He > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jake Lee <gstu1...@gmail.com> 于2019年7月18日周四 > 上午11:29写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:27 AM Junru Shao < > > > > > > > > > junrushao1...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:12 AM Anirudh > Acharya < > > > > > > > > > > > > anirudhk...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 11:03 AM Marco de > Abreu < > > > > > > > > > > > > > marco.g.ab...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Marco > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sheng Zha <zhash...@apache.org> schrieb > am Do., > > > > 18. > > > > > > Juli > > > > > > > > > 2019, > > > > > > > > > > > > > 19:59: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear MXNet community, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to reopen the discussion on > > > deprecating > > > > > > python2 > > > > > > > > > > > support. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would help modernize the design and > engineering > > > > > > practice > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > MXNet > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > help > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > improve speed and quality. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For this purpose, I reopened the issue > on this > > > > > here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8703 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the consensus is towards the > direction of > > > > > dropping > > > > > > > > > python2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggest we announce our plan to drop > python2 > > > > > support > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > next > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and actually drop the support in the > next major > > > > > > version. > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -sz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > Yuxi(Darren) Hu, Ph.D. > > > > > > > > > > > Software Development Engineer > > > > > > > > > > > Amazon Web Services > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *Chaitanya Prakash Bapat* > > > > *+1 (973) 953-6299* > > > > > > > > [image: https://www.linkedin.com//in/chaibapat25] > > > > <https://github.com/ChaiBapchya>[image: > > > https://www.facebook.com/chaibapat > > > > ] > > > > <https://www.facebook.com/chaibapchya>[image: > > > > https://twitter.com/ChaiBapchya] < > https://twitter.com/ChaiBapchya > > > >[image: > > > > https://www.linkedin.com//in/chaibapat25] > > > > <https://www.linkedin.com//in/chaibapchya/> > > > > > > > > > >
