I'll review them this weekend. 

Thanks,

Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Lahoda <[email protected]> 
Sent: November 28, 2019 5:29 PM
To: Apache NetBeans <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Dropping Installers from the Release Process leave that 
work to Third Party Distributors

Hi Ken,

I think your input is needed on these legal-discuss threads:
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201911.mbox/%3C4169588f-731b-df79-de80-d6640a9e9fa8%40gmail.com%3E
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201911.mbox/%3CCEB62E1B-B884-4DD3-92BA-5A979AD21D02%40dotnetrdf.org%3E
https://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201911.mbox/%3Cd99bd5ff-c44b-a724-d5e7-28de791462e6%40gmail.com%3E

And/or on these legal jira questions:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-488
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-489

Jan

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 5:45 PM Kenneth Fogel <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I apologize if I misunderstood but the conversation appeared to me, 
> likely incorrectly, to go beyond just bundling a Java JDK. The 
> installers that are already there, are they downloading a JDK if one 
> is not present? Requiring a separate install of Java is the status 
> quo. If we could make that part of the NetBeans installer then we 
> should an we should pursue an exemption to Apache policies if required.
>
> Ken
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geertjan Wielenga <[email protected]>
> Sent: November 28, 2019 11:30 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Dropping Installers from the Release Process 
> leave that work to Third Party Distributors
>
> You’re aware that we’re already distributing an installer, right? And 
> that that is not what we’re talking about?
>
> We’re talking about the fact that we can’t bundle the JDK with that 
> installer and then distribute that installer from Apache.
>
> A simple link on our download page to OpenBeans and AdoptOpenJDK and 
> any other distributor is all we need, for the installers of NetBeans 
> that bundle the JDK.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 at 17:20, Kenneth Fogel 
> <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > This is a bad idea. I personally feel that an installer is mandatory.
> > Eclipse and IntelliJ have installers for all platforms. Leaving it 
> > to third parties will mean that we have no oversight on the quality 
> > and ease of use of the installer. Only distributing a zip file 
> > implies that skills beyond learning to code with NetBeans will be 
> > required. We can pretty much write off the education sector if there 
> > is no installer. Sorry to be harsh but this is a line I believe we 
> > must not
> cross.
> >
> > It is unfortunates, as someone has pointed out, that Apache is not 
> > end user friendly but that is no excuse. NetBeans is an end user 
> > program and must be as easy to install as any other IDE and have an 
> > official
> installer.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Laszlo Kishalmi <[email protected]>
> > Sent: November 27, 2019 2:41 PM
> > To: Apache NetBeans <[email protected]>
> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Dropping Installers from the Release Process 
> > leave that work to Third Party Distributors
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > It is a great burden to us to provide the best out-of-the-box 
> > install experience with NetBeans. That would mean, providing an 
> > installer with JDK, nb-javac probably javafx.
> >
> > See the threads:
> >
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a3e6051130e18aae3f7a81c562a63ac
> > 96 d3a3a07d4bcbee074392d59@%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
> >
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/489f17e30d9125ee48e2d78dc36572d
> > b6 a3f5d6474f492458e0db151@%3Clegal-discuss.apache.org%3E
> >
> > On 11/26/19 9:29 PM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > I try to summary the lengthy threads about bundling OpenJDK 
> > > GPL+CPE with Apache NetBeans.
> > >
> > > There are mainly two readings of GPL+CPE:
> > >
> > >  1. OpenJDK (GPL+CPE) + NetBeans (Apache) = Executable which can be
> > >     distributed under Apache license, due to CPE  2. CPE only 
> > > allows other product built on Java to be distributed
> > >     under their own license.
> > >
> > > As I'm not a lawyer, I cannot answer which interpretation is 
> > > correct (maybe none of them). ASF has every right to regard the 
> > > second interpretation, thus GPL+CPE ended up in the Category-X licenses.
> > >
> > > The following viable possibilities were brought up:
> > >
> > >  1. We may apply for an exception to the board  2. Use some 
> > > download logic in the installer.
> > >  3. Leave the binary packaging and distribution to third parties.
> > >
> > > Regarding that there are interest from third parties to built on 
> > > Apache NetBeans, I'm going to recommend the PMC to select a few 
> > > distributor for creating installer packages and we limit/drop our 
> > > installer bundle creation in the future.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Laszlo Kishalmi
> > >
> >
> > I do not think that after this discussion we would get the exception 
> > from the board Geertjan might try to bring it up there as well.
> >
> > As of me option 2 is questionable.
> >
> > Option 3. is a bit hard to say, but if we can't produce proper 
> > installation packages, it would probably better to not create those 
> > packages at all, leave that for others.
> >
> > How I imagine that:
> >
> >  1.  From 11.3 we remove the convenience binaries and installers from
> >     our download page
> >  2. We would still create, sign and host our nbm-s.
> >  3. On our download page we have the source package and a section for
> >     third party distributors.
> >
> > Well of course this thread is just to start a discussion about this 
> > matter. I know it would hurt the brand, but probably it is better 
> > than produce some sub-optimal installers while other parties can 
> > come with all the bells and whistles.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Laszlo Kishalmi
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Reply via email to