FYI: I've prepared https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4795
Just like Kotlin offers two benefits: > and Ernie nicely summarized them as: > > - language specification independent of the JDK > > - compiler version specified as part of project build script I believe it is beneficial to bring those benefits to Java as well. Let NetBeans project benefit from using NbJavac more! -jt Dne neděle 9. října 2022 19:21:03 CEST, Jaroslav Tulach napsal(a): > Thank you for your reactions. > > If you dedicated 40 minutes and watched my "Forget/Ignore Kotlin, use > Java19" talk at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua-8ySwFgqg and didn't get > convinced about anything, then I doubt additional email messages can change > something. Anyway thanks for your reactions, I've only received positive > feedback so far. > Emmanuel wrote: > > PS I loved the beard, I didn't recognize you at first glance > > Laszlo wrote: > > Thanks for sharing the presentation!, I really enjoyed it. +1 for that > > mustache! > > Thank you guys. This is why I was avoiding barber since the COVID outbreak! > > > However let's return back to the topic of the talk. Kotlin has some benefits > and Ernie nicely summarized them as: > > - language specification independent of the JDK > > - compiler version specified as part of project build script > > - language quickly evolves > > - still can be used to generate JDK8 code > > I believe that Java ecosystem would be better, if we adopted some of these > benefits as well. > > Let's only focus on the first two now. Let's make the compiler part of the > project build script first. That will detach the compiler/language from the > JDK. The benefit is obvious - one will be able to build on JDK 37+ ;-) While > JDK's `javac` compiler drops supported target options like crazy, JDK still > knows how to execute even the oldest bytecode. By having a compiler "part > of the build script" - our builds will be more reproducible in the future, > even with the newest JDKs. > > Please note that for this to happen, I'll be fine with any javac family > compiler available on Maven central. E.g. I will use `nb-javac`: https:// > cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Overview%3A+nb-javac > > I'd start slower this time by eating our own dog food. I'd just modify > NetBeans build script to compile NetBeans source with nb-javac. This shall > be the non-controversial part of "improve Java by mimicking Kotlin" project > - all comments I've heard so far attack other aspects - nobody criticized > including a compiler into the build script vision. > > Best regards and keep the comments coming. I am reading them all. > -jt > > Dne středa 5. října 2022 19:47:24 CEST, Jaroslav Tulach napsal(a): > > Hi. > > Recently I brought [Frgaal retrofit compiler](http://frgaal.org) to your > > attention again. There was a [PR-4682](https://github.com/apache/netbeans/ > > pull/4682) and then a discussion in the thread about (not) supporting ecj > > in NetBeans: https://lists.apache.org/[email protected] - > > thank you for your comments. > > > > It all boils down to a simple question: Shall NetBeans try to improve > > shortcomings of the JDK? > > > > I have recently given a talk [Forget/Ignore Kotlin, use Java19](https:// > > www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua-8ySwFgqg). There is a slide describing the > > benefits of Kotlin around 5th minute. Clearly the fact that the Kotlin > > language quickly evolves and still can be used to generate JDK8 code is a > > huge benefit. > > > > Frgaal (described around 25 minute) can do the same. It has been modeled > > to > > mimic the Kotlin model: > > - language specification independent of the JDK > > - compiler version specified as part of project build script > > > > Moreover Frgaal is 100% compatible with future Java language specification > > - easy to drop it after switching to newest JDK. Overall it is way easier > > to adopt latest Java thru Frgaal than trying to switch to a completely > > new language. Why do I have to explain it again and again? > > > > NetBeans can support Frgaal without any problems as it is also (just like > > nb- javac) a member of the Javac family. All these compilers generate > > exactly the same errors and provide the same WYSIWYG experience. Same > > errors in the IDE, same on the command line, same on the CI. > > > > All that is needed is: We have to realize that "innovation happens > > elsewhere" and make Java better than the one produced by the JDK team! > > > > Anyone has guts to follow better-than-JDK vision? Then let me integrate > > Frgaal into NetBeans and bring the latest Java language features to users > > of older JDKs. > > -jt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
