Thank you for your reactions. If you dedicated 40 minutes and watched my "Forget/Ignore Kotlin, use Java19" talk at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua-8ySwFgqg and didn't get convinced about anything, then I doubt additional email messages can change something. Anyway thanks for your reactions, I've only received positive feedback so far.
Emmanuel wrote: > PS I loved the beard, I didn't recognize you at first glance Laszlo wrote: > Thanks for sharing the presentation!, I really enjoyed it. +1 for that > mustache! Thank you guys. This is why I was avoiding barber since the COVID outbreak! However let's return back to the topic of the talk. Kotlin has some benefits and Ernie nicely summarized them as: > - language specification independent of the JDK > - compiler version specified as part of project build script > - language quickly evolves > - still can be used to generate JDK8 code I believe that Java ecosystem would be better, if we adopted some of these benefits as well. Let's only focus on the first two now. Let's make the compiler part of the project build script first. That will detach the compiler/language from the JDK. The benefit is obvious - one will be able to build on JDK 37+ ;-) While JDK's `javac` compiler drops supported target options like crazy, JDK still knows how to execute even the oldest bytecode. By having a compiler "part of the build script" - our builds will be more reproducible in the future, even with the newest JDKs. Please note that for this to happen, I'll be fine with any javac family compiler available on Maven central. E.g. I will use `nb-javac`: https:// cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Overview%3A+nb-javac I'd start slower this time by eating our own dog food. I'd just modify NetBeans build script to compile NetBeans source with nb-javac. This shall be the non-controversial part of "improve Java by mimicking Kotlin" project - all comments I've heard so far attack other aspects - nobody criticized including a compiler into the build script vision. Best regards and keep the comments coming. I am reading them all. -jt Dne středa 5. října 2022 19:47:24 CEST, Jaroslav Tulach napsal(a): > Hi. > Recently I brought [Frgaal retrofit compiler](http://frgaal.org) to your > attention again. There was a [PR-4682](https://github.com/apache/netbeans/ > pull/4682) and then a discussion in the thread about (not) supporting ecj in > NetBeans: https://lists.apache.org/[email protected] - > thank you for your comments. > > It all boils down to a simple question: Shall NetBeans try to improve > shortcomings of the JDK? > > I have recently given a talk [Forget/Ignore Kotlin, use Java19](https:// > www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua-8ySwFgqg). There is a slide describing the > benefits of Kotlin around 5th minute. Clearly the fact that the Kotlin > language quickly evolves and still can be used to generate JDK8 code is a > huge benefit. > > Frgaal (described around 25 minute) can do the same. It has been modeled to > mimic the Kotlin model: > - language specification independent of the JDK > - compiler version specified as part of project build script > > Moreover Frgaal is 100% compatible with future Java language specification - > easy to drop it after switching to newest JDK. Overall it is way easier to > adopt latest Java thru Frgaal than trying to switch to a completely new > language. Why do I have to explain it again and again? > > NetBeans can support Frgaal without any problems as it is also (just like > nb- javac) a member of the Javac family. All these compilers generate > exactly the same errors and provide the same WYSIWYG experience. Same > errors in the IDE, same on the command line, same on the CI. > > All that is needed is: We have to realize that "innovation happens > elsewhere" and make Java better than the one produced by the JDK team! > > Anyone has guts to follow better-than-JDK vision? Then let me integrate > Frgaal into NetBeans and bring the latest Java language features to users > of older JDKs. > -jt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
