Hi Alan, Yes - I can view that list and have successfully subscribed.
Kind regards, Andrew Dennison Chief Architect and Hardware Team Lead On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 at 03:17, Alan C. Assis <acas...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > Sorry my delay, I opened the jira issue and they suggested me to ask > at legal-discuss mailling list. > > I think it is public, so maybe everybody involved on this subject > could be involved. > Could you please confirm you have access to: > https://lists.apache.org/list.html?legal-disc...@apache.org ? > > BR, > > Alan > > On 11/9/23, Andrew Dennison <andrew.denni...@motec.com.au> wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > > > Just confirming you got the suggested request i sent you off-list and > that > > it didn't end up in spam. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Andrew > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023, 12:38 AM Alan C. Assis <acas...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi Andrew, > >> > >> I have access to Apache JIRA, please send me the suggested request and > >> I will open a ticket there. > >> > >> BR, > >> > >> Alan > >> > >> On 10/20/23, Andrew Dennison <andrew.denni...@motec.com.au> wrote: > >> > To answer my own question: it seems public accounts are disabled for > >> Apache > >> > jira. If this is the next step what's the process to get this request > >> > raised? Can someone here help? > >> > > >> > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 7:12 AM Andrew Dennison > >> > <andrew.denni...@motec.com.au> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> Hi Brennan, > >> >> > >> >> Is this something anyone can do? If so I'll take this step to move > >> >> forward: it's been unclear how to get this question resolved. > >> >> > >> >> Kind regards, > >> >> > >> >> Andrew > >> >> > >> >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023, 1:36 AM Brennan Ashton > >> >> <bash...@brennanashton.com > >> > > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> There is wayyyyy to much speculation here (and some jus wrong > >> >>> statements). > >> >>> Someone just needs to open an Apache JIRA ticket with legal and you > >> will > >> >>> get an offical answer. > >> >>> > >> >>> --Brennan > >> >>> > >> >>> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 2:54 AM Andrew Dennison < > >> >>> andrew.denni...@motec.com.au> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> > Hi all, > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Wow, i didn't think we were doing anything other than trying to > >> >>> > help > >> >>> > facilitate adding more driver support. The easiest approach seems > >> >>> > to > >> >>> > be > >> >>> to > >> >>> > get the os independent components licenced by the original authors > >> >>> > in > >> >>> > a > >> >>> > compatible way so we can move forward with the technical element. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > My recollection is the license A OR B proposal came from a > document > >> on > >> >>> the > >> >>> > Apache website we were pointed to on this mailing list a few > months > >> >>> > ago, > >> >>> > but maybe I'm mistaken. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Is this really the first time this has been debated? There seemed > >> >>> > to > >> >>> > be > >> >>> > examples of this exact model when a had a quick look around. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I just want to find out if there is a way forward compatible with > >> >>> > Apache > >> >>> > requirements: IANAL and don't want to speculate on the way > forward, > >> >>> > just > >> >>> > thought it was easier to ask. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Can anyone in the project help facilitate an "official" answer > from > >> >>> Apache? > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Kind regards, > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Andrew > >> >>> > > >> >>> > PS: the driver authors are not subscribed, so probably haven't > seen > >> >>> > this > >> >>> > recently debate. I'll coordinate with them if there is a way > >> >>> > forward. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023, 6:49 PM Sebastien Lorquet < > >> sebast...@lorquet.fr> > >> >>> > wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > Are you seriously taking legal advice, on behalf of an apache > >> >>> > > project, > >> >>> > > from a generative language model? > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > Sebastien > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > Le 17/10/2023 à 22:22, Alan C. Assis a écrit : > >> >>> > > > Oops, it was: you cannot enforce both at same time. > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > Actually I think I was wrong (not about enforcing), but the > >> >>> > > > main > >> >>> issue > >> >>> > > > about Dual license is how the contributions will evolve. > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > I decided to ask about it to ChatGPT: > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > " > >> >>> > > > Question: if an open-source software X was released as dual > >> >>> > > > license > >> >>> > > > GPL and Apache License, can we used it in our project NuttX > >> >>> > > > that > >> >>> used > >> >>> > > > Apache License? > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > If an open-source software X is released under both the GPL > >> >>> > > > (GNU > >> >>> > > > General Public License) and the Apache License, you generally > >> have > >> >>> > > > some flexibility in how you can use it in your project NuttX, > >> >>> > > > which > >> >>> is > >> >>> > > > licensed under the Apache License. However, there are > important > >> >>> > > > considerations and potential complications to keep in mind: > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > Compatibility of Licenses: > >> >>> > > > The Apache License and the GPL are generally > >> >>> > > > considered > >> >>> > > > to > >> >>> be > >> >>> > > > compatible licenses. This means that you can include > >> >>> > > > Apache-licensed > >> >>> > > > code in a GPL-licensed project and vice versa without > violating > >> >>> > > > the > >> >>> > > > terms of either license. > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > License Choice: > >> >>> > > > When incorporating dual-licensed code into your > >> >>> > > > project, > >> >>> you > >> >>> > > > have a choice in which license to follow. If you choose the > >> Apache > >> >>> > > > License, you can do so without any issues, as the Apache > >> >>> > > > License > >> >>> > > > is > >> >>> > > > permissive. However, if you choose the GPL, you must comply > >> >>> > > > with > >> >>> > > > the > >> >>> > > > terms of the GPL, which may include open-sourcing your entire > >> >>> project > >> >>> > > > under the GPL. > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > Potential GPL Implications: > >> >>> > > > Using the GPL-licensed version of software X may have > >> >>> > > > implications for the licensing of your entire project. The GPL > >> >>> > > > is > >> >>> > > > a > >> >>> > > > more restrictive license that requires you to release your > >> >>> > > > entire > >> >>> > > > project under the GPL if you use GPL-licensed code. This could > >> >>> affect > >> >>> > > > how you distribute your project and any proprietary components > >> >>> within > >> >>> > > > it. > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > Be Careful with License Mixing: > >> >>> > > > It's important to carefully manage the licensing of > >> >>> > > > each > >> >>> > > > component within your project. Ensure that you clearly > identify > >> >>> > > > and > >> >>> > > > understand the licensing terms of each component and only > >> >>> > > > include > >> >>> code > >> >>> > > > in your project that is compatible with the licensing choices > >> >>> > > > you > >> >>> want > >> >>> > > > to make. > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > Consult Legal Advice: > >> >>> > > > Dual licensing can be complex, and the specific terms > >> >>> > > > of > >> >>> > > > software X may have variations or nuances that need legal > >> >>> > > > interpretation. It's advisable to consult with a legal expert > >> >>> > > > who > >> >>> > > > is > >> >>> > > > well-versed in open source licensing if you have any doubts or > >> >>> > > > concerns. > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > In summary, you can use the dual-licensed software X in your > >> >>> > > > project > >> >>> > > > NuttX that is under the Apache License. However, you need to > >> >>> > > > make > >> >>> > > > a > >> >>> > > > conscious choice about which license to follow for the code > >> >>> > > > from > >> >>> > > > software X, and be aware of the potential implications, > >> especially > >> >>> if > >> >>> > > > you decide to use the GPL-licensed version, as it may affect > >> >>> > > > the > >> >>> > > > licensing of your entire project. Consulting with a legal > >> >>> > > > expert > >> >>> > > > is > >> >>> a > >> >>> > > > wise step when dealing with complex licensing issues. > >> >>> > > > " > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > So, we are back to square one! > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > BR, > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > Alan > >> >>> > > > > >> >>> > > > On 10/17/23, Alan C. Assis <acas...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > > >> Hi Tomek, > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >> On 10/17/23, Tomek CEDRO <to...@cedro.info> wrote: > >> >>> > > >>>> To be honest I don't see a big issue of a driver as dual > >> >>> license, we > >> >>> > > >>>> already have SocketCAN and other drivers as dual license > >> >>> > > >>>> (GPL > >> >>> > > >>>> and > >> >>> > > >>>> Apache, BSD and Apache, etc). The original Author said the > >> want > >> >>> is > >> >>> > to > >> >>> > > >>>> be released as dual license: A or license B. > >> >>> > > >>> Isn't is more A AND B ? > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> A OR B == I want A but not B so I stick to A ? :-P > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >> No, because technically you can enforce two at same time, in > >> that > >> >>> case > >> >>> > > >> GPL could prevail! :-) > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >>>> The License war is terrible, I think there is not a single > >> >>> license > >> >>> > > >>>> compatible with all, even CC0, BSD or public domain cannot > >> >>> > > >>>> be > >> >>> used > >> >>> > as > >> >>> > > >>>> freely was we think. Many countries law, companies, > patents, > >> >>> > > >>>> etc, > >> >>> > > >>>> involved. > >> >>> > > >>> BSD and MIT seems most liberal. Apache also clarifies patent > >> >>> stuff. > >> >>> > > >>> GPL is viral and enforces GPL on all further works. > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> As above, if the case is "A AND B" then GPL taints > everything > >> to > >> >>> be > >> >>> > GPL > >> >>> > > >>> too..? > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >> See, the Author defines it as dual license (so yes A "AND" > B), > >> >>> > > >> but > >> >>> if > >> >>> > > >> project X uses license A it will stick to license A instead > of > >> B. > >> >>> If > >> >>> > > >> project Y uses license B it will stick with B instead of A. > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >> So, more precisely it is A XOR B. > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >>> Quck search (query: gpl vs apache vs bsd license) resulting > >> >>> > > >>> quote > >> >>> : > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> " > >> >>> > > >>> I will mainly talk about the practical consequences and not > >> >>> > > >>> go > >> >>> into > >> >>> > > >>> the nitty gritty. By GPL compatible I mean that a GPL > project > >> >>> > > >>> can > >> >>> use > >> >>> > > >>> your code (NOT you can use GPL code). > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> The MIT and BSD 2 clause licenses have similar requirements: > >> >>> > > >>> keep > >> >>> the > >> >>> > > >>> license file. The BSD 3 clause license adds a term to the > BSD > >> >>> > > >>> 2 > >> >>> that > >> >>> > > >>> prevents someone from claiming false endorsement. These > three > >> >>> > licenses > >> >>> > > >>> are compatible with GPLv2 and v3. > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> The Apache 2.0 license requires you to keep the license > file, > >> >>> > > >>> the > >> >>> > > >>> NOTICE file if there is one, and show notice for modified > >> files. > >> >>> It > >> >>> > > >>> also addresses some patent-related issues, so companies use > >> >>> > > >>> it > >> a > >> >>> lot. > >> >>> > > >>> It is compatible with GPLv3 but not v2 (due to the patent > >> >>> clauses). > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> There is also an old BSD license that has an clause related > >> >>> > > >>> to > >> >>> > > >>> advertising. Don't use it because it's not GPL compatible. > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> In practice, the ecosystem you are working with has a > license > >> >>> that is > >> >>> > > >>> used most often to begin with, and I would stick to that. > For > >> >>> > example, > >> >>> > > >>> I would use MIT for Nodejs packages. If you are working on > an > >> >>> > > >>> application, some would recommend using the Apache 2.0 > >> >>> > > >>> license > >> >>> > because > >> >>> > > >>> it covers patent issues. > >> >>> > > >>> " > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> And some references: > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_License > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >>> :-) > >> >>> > > >>> > >> >>> > > >> Yes, BTW the original author said the driver will be offered > >> >>> > > >> as > >> >>> dual > >> >>> > > >> license (GPL "AND" / "OR" / "XOR" / "however" Apache) so I > >> think > >> >>> it > >> >>> > > >> fear to use under Apache License > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >> I don't know how we could fix this Catch 22, maybe the Author > >> >>> > > >> could > >> >>> > > >> release two separated versions? > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >> BR, > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > >> Alan > >> >>> > > >> > >> >>> > > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > -- > >> >>> > *MoTeC Pty Ltd* > >> >>> > > >> >>> > 121 Merrindale Drive > >> >>> > Croydon South 3136 > >> >>> > Victoria Australia > >> >>> > *T: *61 3 9761 5050 > >> >>> > *W: *www.motec.com.au <https://www.motec.com.au/> > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > -- > >> >>> > <http://www.facebook.com/motec.global> > >> >>> > <http://www.youtube.com/user/MoTeCAustralia> > >> >>> > <https://www.instagram.com/motec_global/> > >> >>> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/motec-global> > >> >>> > <https://twitter.com/motec_global> > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > -- > >> >>> > <https://www.professionalmotorsport-expo.com/en/register.php> > >> >>> > > >> >>> > -- > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > Disclaimer Notice: This message, including any attachments, > >> >>> > contains > >> >>> > confidential information intended for a specific individual and > >> >>> > purpose > >> >>> > and > >> >>> > is protected by law. 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