IMHO an architectual, pluggable and open approach is preferred over trying to include everything into a single package. What if users don't want or need a feature in their Ofbiz installation? What if there's a better solution? My personal favor would be to use a branch as long as possible and merge into trunk after an incubation period and PMC vote. And maybe only provide a feature as an addon. In that way features can mature, gain collaborators or even die without affecting main development. I sometimes feel that trunk is being treated as a sandbox. If we could consider trunk as a master and be picky about what we merge into it it would be much easier to release new versions of Ofbiz and provide more stability. So yes, anyone can contribute everything and encourage people doing that but I don't like to see Ofbiz trunk suffering from a Swiss army knife syndrome. And as the E in ERP stands for Enterprise we have to be aware that stability and integration in key that area.
Jeroen van der Wal Stromboli b.v. +31 655 874050 On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 1:06 AM, David E Jones <d...@me.com> wrote: > > Just to be clear, are you saying you want to work on this? > > Please keep in mind that people are free to contribute what they will. Maybe > we can vote or all agree on not allowing something in, but we can't force > anyone to do anything. We also shouldn't, though many of us often do, imply > that others should do something just because we think they should. > > Sharing ideas is great, but unless someone actually does it, then by > definition it ain't gonna happen. > > -David > > > On Dec 15, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: > >> Developing support for it would be fine, if the messaging feature was set up >> as a gateway. >> >> I'm not aware of any generic specifications for payment gateways, yet OFBiz >> accommodates a variety of them. >> >> The point I have been trying to make is this: if we're going to add an >> instant messaging or twitter-like feature to OFBiz, let's do it in a way >> that works for more than one messaging service. >> >> -Adrian >> >> David E Jones wrote: >>> Then you'll have to develop support for it, or get someone else to do it >>> for you. >>> I'm not aware of any generic specification we could implement to that would >>> support ESME as well as other options. Is there one you have in mind? >>> -David >>> On Dec 15, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>> What if I want the messaging feature, but I already have a messaging >>>> server that isn't ESME? >>>> >>>> -Adrian >>>> >>>> Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>> we are still investigating how to interface but yes an inclusion of a >>>>> full system as a component seems the best way to us if only for the ease >>>>> of installation and the convenient license. >>>>> looking more into skala ..... an possible upgrade to groovy and java >>>>> being compatible with our current runtime environment (JVM/Tomcat) >>>>> On Tue, 2009-12-15 at 08:58 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>>>> In other words, "Thank you for your suggestions, but I'm going to ignore >>>>>> them." >>>>>> >>>>>> Saying ESME is an essential part of OFBiz is like saying Apache James is >>>>>> an essential part of OFBiz - so we can send emails from OFBiz. >>>>>> >>>>>> No, we don't need to install ESME - just create a gateway to it. The >>>>>> integration Wiki page >>>>>> (http://incubator.apache.org/esme/collaboration-with-ofbiz.html) already >>>>>> suggests something like that. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>> Hi everybody who commented. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The approach that Adrian has below and is supported by others in the >>>>>>> community was also our first and seems the easiest from an >>>>>>> implementation point of view. After some investigation however we >>>>>>> consider ESME not only an add-on but >>>>>>> an essential part of OFBiz which should be automatically installed when >>>>>>> OFBiz is installed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That means: >>>>>>> 1. everybody who is registered in OFBiz is automatically using ESME. >>>>>>> 2. everybody will follow the system messages from the system >>>>>>> administrator which is currently done in the system info notes >>>>>>> (commonext component), ESME will replace it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The proposal: >>>>>>> 1. We should install ESME as a 'normal' OFBiz component in the >>>>>>> application- or even framework folder because it will be a mandatory >>>>>>> part of the system. >>>>>>> 2. ESME authentication will be disabled and should, as a normal ofbiz >>>>>>> component, use the framework authentication. >>>>>>> 3. ESME runs happily under Tomcat and is using the Java runtime. >>>>>>> 4. ESME has the Apache 2 license, so no problems here too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Further plans: >>>>>>> We almost upgraded to Axis2 in the framework and let OFBiz installations >>>>>>> exchange ESME messages via webservices. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Hans. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 07:48 -0800, Adrian Crum wrote: >>>>>>>> I believe any integration with existing chat/twitter-like services >>>>>>>> would be useful. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From my perspective, it would be best to build into OFBiz a gateway to >>>>>>>> these external services. In other words, take the same approach we use >>>>>>>> with external payment processors. I believe that would be less >>>>>>>> complicated and more flexible than integrating a specific service into >>>>>>>> OFBiz. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Adrian >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>>>> Some users are wondering if ESME is useful to add to OFBiz or not, >>>>>>>>> therefore some promotion why I think it is interesting and yes I have >>>>>>>>> business cases for it: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. It started with a request of our customers to have a chat >>>>>>>>> possibility >>>>>>>>> in e-commerce for new users to ask questions via chat. I looked at 2 >>>>>>>>> chat open source frameworks. Then ESME was proposed here in the >>>>>>>>> mailing >>>>>>>>> list. My opinion is that if ESME can do chat too, then better go for >>>>>>>>> ESME so we have also twitter functions. (as Tim also stated) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. ESME allows to use the twitter principle in a protected business >>>>>>>>> environment: developers/marketeers exchanging ideas, announcing news >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> problems. (yes you should use OFBiz in your company to see these >>>>>>>>> benefits) >>>>>>>>> If you are still not convinced of twitter in a business environment: >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> a twitter account and follow me: @hansbak i will keep you informed >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> ESME within OFBiz and you will have the opportunity for point 3 as a >>>>>>>>> bonus. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. ESME was actually born in the SAP environment and many people from >>>>>>>>> this environment now getting exposed to OFBiz because we are looking >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> ESME too and the ESME people "retweet" my ESME experiences to their >>>>>>>>> network of twitter accounts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was not convinced about this twitter stuff but using this for my >>>>>>>>> ESME >>>>>>>>> investigations has shown me that it is actually pretty exiting getting >>>>>>>>> to know so much new people in such a short time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> David thanks for the support because it looks like that the OFBiz >>>>>>>>> community has a problem accepting new functions like this one, even if >>>>>>>>> it does not affect their usage of OFBiz. So please people, not too >>>>>>>>> conservative and always be open to new developments! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 16:30 +0700, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Proposal: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We are looking to copy an ESME server within OFBiz as a component to >>>>>>>>>> allow for twitter like messaging within the OFBiz environment. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> users coming on the ecommerce site can 'twitter' a message which is >>>>>>>>>> monitored by the system admin, who can answer the questions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Logged in users can follow other registered users and can twitter >>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>> they are doing... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> more info at >>>>>>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/ESME/Collaboration+with+OFbiz >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> any thoughts? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>> Hans (@hansbak) >>>>>>>>>> > >
