I still think the problem for the business user is still much higher then the not "intuitive" problem for the experienced technical user. A parameter in web.xml is easily "forgotten" which actually started this whole discussion.
Regards, Hans On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 20:42 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: > You are yet to explain why simply commenting out the web app settings in the > trunk will not solve your problem. If that is done then the "business" > reasons will take priority by default. > > Regards > Scott > > On 10/07/2010, at 8:34 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > > > can only repeat what i said: I think he the business reasons should take > > priority and leave the system as it is now. > > > > Regards, > > Hans > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 20:07 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: > >> Of course I just made it up, that doesn't make it an invalid scenario > >> though. > >> > >> Like I said, your "business" problem can easily be solved without the > >> changes you made. Simply revert your commit and instead comment out the > >> settings in the web.xml files and commit that. Problem solved, everybody > >> is happy. > >> > >> Regards > >> Scott > >> > >> On 10/07/2010, at 7:54 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >> > >>> Sorry Scott, you simply trying to find a reason you just made up now, > >>> Business reasons still more important , is my opinion. > >>> > >>> thanks for your reply, > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Hans > >>> > >>> I is extremely far fledged and still think the business user take > >>> priority here. > >>> > >>> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 19:32 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: > >>>> If the setting is commented out in all OOTB web.xml files then a > >>>> non-techincal user will never be bothered by it, case closed. > >>>> > >>>> As for why you would ever want to override widget.verbose=true: > >>>> Let's say you have a staging instance deployed on a test server and > >>>> active development and debugging is still taking place. Let's say that > >>>> as part of your testing you want to test your ecommerce page load times, > >>>> sizes and effects of page compression. Now to do that, you want to be > >>>> able to turn off the widget boundary comments for ecommerce but you want > >>>> to do it without effecting the other developers who are working on the > >>>> back-end applications. > >>>> In this case you can turn off the boundary comments in the ecommerce > >>>> webapp's web.xml file and still have all other applications display > >>>> them. I mean wow, what a wonderfully flexible system. > >>>> > >>>> How does that sound? > >>>> > >>>> Regards > >>>> Scott > >>>> > >>>> On 10/07/2010, at 7:17 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Tell me when you would ever want to override a widget.verbose=true in > >>>>> widget.properties? > >>>>> > >>>>> For a business user or a user hosting the application it is important > >>>>> that when he sets it to true, he wants to see the comments irrespective > >>>>> of web.xml buried deep down in the system > >>>>> > >>>>> What is more important? > >>>>> 1. a capable technical use who does not find it "intuitive" > >>>>> 2. a business/hosting user who is wondering why the comments are not > >>>>> displayed although he has set the parameter in the widget.properties > >>>>> file to true? > >>>>> > >>>>> business reasons are most(all?) of the time more important than the > >>>>> technical reasons > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Hans > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 17:49 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: > >>>>>> I don't see a huge problem with your change but I have to admit that I > >>>>>> don't remember what your change actually does. There is a reason why > >>>>>> I don't remember though, because it isn't intuitive. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> With the way things were before, it was easy to understand: > >>>>>> context overrides web.xml overrides widget.properties > >>>>>> > >>>>>> See how clean that is? I won't ever forget it because it makes sense. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> You have yet to explain why the way things were before your change was > >>>>>> harmful and couldn't have simply been solved by commenting out the > >>>>>> web.xml setting in the trunk and adding some documenting comments. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Regards > >>>>>> Scott > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 10/07/2010, at 5:40 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> You still not give me a business reason why the change i did was > >>>>>>> harmful > >>>>>>> or break anything. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 17:02 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: > >>>>>>>> On 10/07/2010, at 4:00 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Before also true could be overridden which was painfully shown in > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> example component not showing comments. I see no valid business > >>>>>>>>> reason > >>>>>>>>> why we should have that. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Let's be clear, there was no problem with the way it worked before, > >>>>>>>> changing the setting in the web.xml of your webapp solved the > >>>>>>>> problem you were having. > >>>>>>>> IMO we could easily solve this discussion by reverting your changes, > >>>>>>>> commenting out the setting in the example and template webapps and > >>>>>>>> then adding a comment explaining what it does. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Having the additional setting in the web.xml does no harm unless it > >>>>>>>> is set to false and someone doesn't know about it. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Everything worked fine before but the problem was the lack of > >>>>>>>> visibility of the settings. We should make it so that the web.xml > >>>>>>>> is only ever set to false on purpose, in custom deployments. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I also added documentation to support this, because that was also a > >>>>>>>>> week > >>>>>>>>> point of the original change. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> Hans > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 22:26 -0500, Adam Heath wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Adrian. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> This is the second time you do not reply to what I write. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> This is not helpful. If you believe someone hasn't understood what > >>>>>>>>>> you have said, then don't just respond saying that you didn't > >>>>>>>>>> understand. You should re-explain it in a different way. If there > >>>>>>>>>> was understanding the first time, then you wouldn't need to state > >>>>>>>>>> that. So, it's obvious that you feel that you weren't understood, > >>>>>>>>>> so > >>>>>>>>>> you need to re-explain yourself. Only you know what you were > >>>>>>>>>> trying > >>>>>>>>>> to say. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> (this is a general rule to follow; if you try to explain something > >>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> someone, and they don't get it, saying it the same way again, or > >>>>>>>>>> saying you just don't get it, won't help anyone). > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> so no use sending you more arguments. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> That's a poor word. Why are you sending arguments? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I will not revert my changes, of the reasons i gave you. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> That's awfully combative. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > >>>>>>>>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak > >>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > >>>>>>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak > >>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > >>>>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak > >>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > >>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak > >>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. > >>> > >> > > > > -- > > Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > > Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak > > Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. > > > -- Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates.
