That's why we comment it out, the only reason you were affected was because it wasn't commented out. The business user never even has to know that it exists.
If your argument now is that at some point in the future a committer will accidentally uncomment the setting, then I think you are clutching at straws and doing your best not to come to a reasonable solution. Regards Scott On 10/07/2010, at 8:50 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: > I still think the problem for the business user is still much higher > then the not "intuitive" problem for the experienced technical user. A > parameter in web.xml is easily "forgotten" which actually started this > whole discussion. > > Regards, > Hans > > On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 20:42 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: >> You are yet to explain why simply commenting out the web app settings in the >> trunk will not solve your problem. If that is done then the "business" >> reasons will take priority by default. >> >> Regards >> Scott >> >> On 10/07/2010, at 8:34 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >> >>> can only repeat what i said: I think he the business reasons should take >>> priority and leave the system as it is now. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Hans >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 20:07 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: >>>> Of course I just made it up, that doesn't make it an invalid scenario >>>> though. >>>> >>>> Like I said, your "business" problem can easily be solved without the >>>> changes you made. Simply revert your commit and instead comment out the >>>> settings in the web.xml files and commit that. Problem solved, everybody >>>> is happy. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Scott >>>> >>>> On 10/07/2010, at 7:54 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry Scott, you simply trying to find a reason you just made up now, >>>>> Business reasons still more important , is my opinion. >>>>> >>>>> thanks for your reply, >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Hans >>>>> >>>>> I is extremely far fledged and still think the business user take >>>>> priority here. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 19:32 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: >>>>>> If the setting is commented out in all OOTB web.xml files then a >>>>>> non-techincal user will never be bothered by it, case closed. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for why you would ever want to override widget.verbose=true: >>>>>> Let's say you have a staging instance deployed on a test server and >>>>>> active development and debugging is still taking place. Let's say that >>>>>> as part of your testing you want to test your ecommerce page load times, >>>>>> sizes and effects of page compression. Now to do that, you want to be >>>>>> able to turn off the widget boundary comments for ecommerce but you want >>>>>> to do it without effecting the other developers who are working on the >>>>>> back-end applications. >>>>>> In this case you can turn off the boundary comments in the ecommerce >>>>>> webapp's web.xml file and still have all other applications display >>>>>> them. I mean wow, what a wonderfully flexible system. >>>>>> >>>>>> How does that sound? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Scott >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/07/2010, at 7:17 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Tell me when you would ever want to override a widget.verbose=true in >>>>>>> widget.properties? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For a business user or a user hosting the application it is important >>>>>>> that when he sets it to true, he wants to see the comments irrespective >>>>>>> of web.xml buried deep down in the system >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is more important? >>>>>>> 1. a capable technical use who does not find it "intuitive" >>>>>>> 2. a business/hosting user who is wondering why the comments are not >>>>>>> displayed although he has set the parameter in the widget.properties >>>>>>> file to true? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> business reasons are most(all?) of the time more important than the >>>>>>> technical reasons >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 17:49 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: >>>>>>>> I don't see a huge problem with your change but I have to admit that I >>>>>>>> don't remember what your change actually does. There is a reason why >>>>>>>> I don't remember though, because it isn't intuitive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the way things were before, it was easy to understand: >>>>>>>> context overrides web.xml overrides widget.properties >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> See how clean that is? I won't ever forget it because it makes sense. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You have yet to explain why the way things were before your change was >>>>>>>> harmful and couldn't have simply been solved by commenting out the >>>>>>>> web.xml setting in the trunk and adding some documenting comments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/07/2010, at 5:40 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You still not give me a business reason why the change i did was >>>>>>>>> harmful >>>>>>>>> or break anything. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2010-07-10 at 17:02 +1200, Scott Gray wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 10/07/2010, at 4:00 PM, Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Before also true could be overridden which was painfully shown in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> example component not showing comments. I see no valid business >>>>>>>>>>> reason >>>>>>>>>>> why we should have that. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Let's be clear, there was no problem with the way it worked before, >>>>>>>>>> changing the setting in the web.xml of your webapp solved the >>>>>>>>>> problem you were having. >>>>>>>>>> IMO we could easily solve this discussion by reverting your changes, >>>>>>>>>> commenting out the setting in the example and template webapps and >>>>>>>>>> then adding a comment explaining what it does. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Having the additional setting in the web.xml does no harm unless it >>>>>>>>>> is set to false and someone doesn't know about it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Everything worked fine before but the problem was the lack of >>>>>>>>>> visibility of the settings. We should make it so that the web.xml >>>>>>>>>> is only ever set to false on purpose, in custom deployments. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I also added documentation to support this, because that was also a >>>>>>>>>>> week >>>>>>>>>>> point of the original change. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Hans >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 22:26 -0500, Adam Heath wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hans Bakker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Adrian. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the second time you do not reply to what I write. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is not helpful. If you believe someone hasn't understood what >>>>>>>>>>>> you have said, then don't just respond saying that you didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> understand. You should re-explain it in a different way. If there >>>>>>>>>>>> was understanding the first time, then you wouldn't need to state >>>>>>>>>>>> that. So, it's obvious that you feel that you weren't understood, >>>>>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>>>>> you need to re-explain yourself. Only you know what you were >>>>>>>>>>>> trying >>>>>>>>>>>> to say. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (this is a general rule to follow; if you try to explain something >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> someone, and they don't get it, saying it the same way again, or >>>>>>>>>>>> saying you just don't get it, won't help anyone). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> so no use sending you more arguments. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That's a poor word. Why are you sending arguments? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I will not revert my changes, of the reasons i gave you. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That's awfully combative. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz >>>>>>>>>>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak >>>>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz >>>>>>>>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak >>>>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz >>>>>>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak >>>>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz >>>>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak >>>>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz >>> Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak >>> Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. >>> >> > > -- > Ofbiz on twitter: http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > Myself on twitter: http://twitter.com/hansbak > Antwebsystems.com: Quality services for competitive rates. >
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