Thanks for your opinion Scott,

Let's try to keep it productive...

Yes, that I agreed on: http://markmail.org/message/2e3qo2ydna4lp5gp
I'm sure you did not miss it even if it's not part of this email.

I still believe that, the more we share through Jira, the better. For many 
reasons it's more effective than ML. 
For this peculiar case, I must admit, years after, it was out of mind.  Here a 
reference to Jira issue, with even a simple sentence in description, possibly 
with a reference to the "aforementioned" dev ML thread (the one about "macro 
widget renderers") and if necessary commit/s reference/s, would have help.

What we are so far discussing about in this thread is based on what we already 
agreed (or at least what I remember about it).
First discuss on dev ML and if necessary open a Jira to collect/share opininons 
and keep a track on all possible info.
If there is nothing let to discuss and it's a simple thing, don't create a Jira 
and then code and commit straight away.

Let's now compare the possible flows of actions.

Currently (hell) using present for a better story:
Years ago, we discuss  on "macro widget renderers" on dev ML and agree we can 
code and commit straight away (correct me if there is/are (a) Jira issue/s 
about it)
Few days ago, Adrian directly commits changes about macro widget renderers; 
without noticing on dev ML, thinking everybody remember what we talked about.
Hans finds few issues and reverts Adrian's commit without noticing anyone on 
dev ML. I guess, to do a such thing, at this point Hans did not remember about 
macro widget renderers and "netiquette" was a bit upset, or in a hurry.
Adrian is (rightly) upset and then our current discussion begins...

Possibly (heaven):
Years ago, we would have discussed  on "macro widget renderers" on dev ML and 
created (a) Jira issue/s with references (links) to the discussion and commits 
and all possibly shared info.
Few days ago, Adrian would have committed changes, noticing others on dev ML, 
with just a link about the Jira (or just saying there is one, for others to 
look for). Possibly only with a comment/link in the commit.
After Hans finds few issues he can refer to the Jira or/and the previous 
discussion about "macro widget renderers". He understands what and why Adrian 
did, and ask for help on the dev ML, instead of abruptly reverting Adrian's 
commit (unfair).-

As I said, I agree Hans made the misconduct. But it's not a reason to put all 
on him and not try to get things better.

This is my opinion (Jira is our friend)

Jacques

Scott Gray wrote:
> Stop trying to create some sort of solution to a non-existent problem.  
> Things get refactored and sometimes it causes issues,
> that is the nature of the trunk and Hans can deal with it the same as anyone 
> else, by reporting and/or fixing issues first, and
> then reverting if no reasonably quick actions can be taken.  
> 
> It's not appropriate to revert a commit without any discussion whatsoever, he 
> didn't even describe the problem until a day later.
> How is the original committer supposed to rectify the issue without any 
> details? 
> 
> Regards
> Scott
> 
> On 28/08/2013, at 7:53 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
> 
>> Then maybe a few words on the dev ML would not have hurt.
>> 
>> Jacques
>> 
>> Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> That was not the case in my commit. The macro widget renderers were
>>> proposed by Jacopo years ago and we discussed it. The implementation was
>>> incomplete however. So, I merely finished an incomplete implementation
>>> of a new feature we agreed on years ago.
>>> 
>>> -Adrian
>>> 
>>> On 8/27/2013 3:06 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
>>>> This is indeed a concern. I believe we should always all follow the Jira 
>>>> way of sharing and testing before committing any new
>>>> major feature or major bug fix (not trivial ones of course). Then, it's 
>>>> possible to wait few days for others to check, not
>>>> bullet proof but surely better.
>>>> 
>>>> Jacques
>>>> 
>>>> Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>> If you would have announced this before you implemented it, i would have
>>>>> known, now in first instance we think this is caused by our changes.....
>>>>> And only later check the svn updates....
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Hans
>>>>> 
>>>>> Try entering a purchase invoice:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Expected collection or sequence. parameterList evaluated instead to
>>>>> freemarker.template.SimpleScalar on line 51, column 12 in
>>>>> component://widget/templates/htmlMenuMacroLibrary.ftl. The problematic
>>>>> instruction: ---------- ==> list parameterList as parameter [on line 51,
>>>>> column 5 in component://widget/templates/htmlMenuMacroLibrary.ftl] in
>>>>> user-directive renderLink [on line 1, column 1 in
>>>>> org.ofbiz.widget.menu.MacroMenuRenderer@21cc9647_1074] ---------- Java
>>>>> backtrace for programmers: ----------
>>>>> freemarker.template.TemplateException: Expected collection or sequence.
>>>>> parameterList evaluated instead to freemarker.template.SimpleScalar on
>>>>> line 51, column 12 in
>>>>> component://widget/templates/htmlMenuMacroLibrary.ftl. at
>>>>> freemarker.core.TemplateObject.invalidTypeException(TemplateObject.java:136)
>>>>> at freemarker.core.IteratorBlock$Context.runLoop(IteratorBlock.
>>>>> 
>>>>> try entering a new accounting transaction:
>>>>> https://localhost:8443/accounting/control/createAcctgTrans
>>>>> 
>>>>> Expected collection or sequence. parameterList evaluated instead to
>>>>> freemarker.template.SimpleScalar on line 51, column 12 in
>>>>> component://widget/templates/htmlMenuMacroLibrary.ftl. The problematic
>>>>> instruction: ---------- ==> list parameterList as parameter [on line 51,
>>>>> column 5 in component://widget/templates/htmlMenuMacroLibrary.ftl] in
>>>>> user-directive renderLink [on line 1, column 1 in
>>>>> org.ofbiz.widget.menu.MacroMenuRenderer@6e5faa56_1073] ---------- Java
>>>>> backtrace for programmers: ----------
>>>>> freemarker.template.TemplateException: Expected collection or sequence.
>>>>> parameterList evaluated instead to freemarker.template.SimpleScalar on
>>>>> line 51, column 12 in
>>>>> component://widget/templates/htmlMenuMacroLibrary.ftl. at
>>>>> 
>>>>> and at a number of other places......
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Hans
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 08/27/2013 11:44 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>> No one is asking you to fix anything. All you had to do was post a
>>>>>> message and I would have fixed it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There was nothing blocking about my commit, and as I said there was no
>>>>>> reason to revert it.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Reverting a commit the way you did is NOT co-operation, and
>>>>>> co-operation is a concept you consistently fail to understand.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/26/2013 8:47 PM, Hans Bakker wrote:
>>>>>>> Adrian,
>>>>>>> Normally I would try to fix a problem and i did this pretty often.
>>>>>>> Because this was a blocking problem i saw no other way then to revert
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Very good to hear you like my commits which at least make a
>>>>>>> difference for our end users. Although i personally appreciate your
>>>>>>> framework commits, end-users, which are out bread and butter, are
>>>>>>> mostly not aware of it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> good to co-operate with you, your comments are often very helpful,
>>>>>>> keep up the good work!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 08/26/2013 03:47 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hans,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Normally, we report problems on the mailing list, not revert someone
>>>>>>>> else's commit.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This was rude and uncalled for. If I did the same thing to your
>>>>>>>> buggy commits, none of your contributions would make it into the
>>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2013 11:28 PM, hans...@apache.org wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Author: hansbak
>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon Aug 26 06:28:00 2013
>>>>>>>>> New Revision: 1517434
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/r1517434
>>>>>>>>> Log:
>>>>>>>>> revert r1517353: it makes the tomahawk theme unusable
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Removed:
>>>>>>>>> ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/src/org/ofbiz/widget/menu/MacroMenuRenderer.java
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/templates/htmlMenuMacroLibrary.ftl
>>>>>>>>> Modified:
>>>>>>>>> ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/src/org/ofbiz/widget/screen/MacroScreenViewHandler.java
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Modified:
>>>>>>>>> ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/src/org/ofbiz/widget/screen/MacroScreenViewHandler.java
>>>>>>>>> URL:
>>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/src/org/ofbiz/widget/screen/MacroScreenViewHandler.java?rev=1517434&r1=1517433&r2=1517434&view=diff
>>>>>>>>> ==============================================================================
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>> ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/src/org/ofbiz/widget/screen/MacroScreenViewHandler.java
>>>>>>>>> (original)
>>>>>>>>> +++
>>>>>>>>> ofbiz/trunk/framework/widget/src/org/ofbiz/widget/screen/MacroScreenViewHandler.java
>>>>>>>>> Mon Aug 26 06:28:00 2013
>>>>>>>>> @@ -38,10 +38,8 @@ import org.ofbiz.webapp.view.AbstractVie
>>>>>>>>>   import org.ofbiz.webapp.view.ViewHandlerException;
>>>>>>>>>   import org.ofbiz.widget.form.FormStringRenderer;
>>>>>>>>>   import org.ofbiz.widget.form.MacroFormRenderer;
>>>>>>>>> -import org.ofbiz.widget.menu.MacroMenuRenderer;
>>>>>>>>> -import org.ofbiz.widget.menu.MenuStringRenderer;
>>>>>>>>> -import org.ofbiz.widget.tree.MacroTreeRenderer;
>>>>>>>>>   import org.ofbiz.widget.tree.TreeStringRenderer;
>>>>>>>>> +import org.ofbiz.widget.tree.MacroTreeRenderer;
>>>>>>>>>   import org.xml.sax.SAXException;
>>>>>>>>>     import freemarker.template.TemplateException;
>>>>>>>>> @@ -92,13 +90,15 @@ public class MacroScreenViewHandler exte
>>>>>>>>>               ScreenStringRenderer screenStringRenderer = new
>>>>>>>>> MacroScreenRenderer(UtilProperties.getPropertyValue("widget",
>>>>>>>>> getName() + ".name"), UtilProperties.getPropertyValue("widget",
>>>>>>>>> getName() + ".screenrenderer"));
>>>>>>>>>               FormStringRenderer formStringRenderer = new
>>>>>>>>> MacroFormRenderer(UtilProperties.getPropertyValue("widget",
>>>>>>>>> getName() + ".formrenderer"), request, response);
>>>>>>>>>               TreeStringRenderer treeStringRenderer = new
>>>>>>>>> MacroTreeRenderer(UtilProperties.getPropertyValue("widget",
>>>>>>>>> getName() + ".treerenderer"), writer);
>>>>>>>>> -            MenuStringRenderer menuStringRenderer = new
>>>>>>>>> MacroMenuRenderer(UtilProperties.getPropertyValue("widget",
>>>>>>>>> getName() + ".menurenderer"), request, response);
>>>>>>>>> +            // TODO: uncomment these lines when the renderers are
>>>>>>>>> implemented
>>>>>>>>> +            //MenuStringRenderer menuStringRenderer = new
>>>>>>>>> MacroMenuRenderer(UtilProperties.getPropertyValue("widget",
>>>>>>>>> getName() + ".menurenderer"), writer);
>>>>>>>>>                 ScreenRenderer screens = new ScreenRenderer(writer,
>>>>>>>>> null, screenStringRenderer);
>>>>>>>>>               screens.populateContextForRequest(request, response,
>>>>>>>>> servletContext);
>>>>>>>>> +            // this is the object used to render forms from their
>>>>>>>>> definitions
>>>>>>>>>               screens.getContext().put("formStringRenderer",
>>>>>>>>> formStringRenderer);
>>>>>>>>>               screens.getContext().put("treeStringRenderer",
>>>>>>>>> treeStringRenderer);
>>>>>>>>> -            screens.getContext().put("menuStringRenderer",
>>>>>>>>> menuStringRenderer);
>>>>>>>>> + //screens.getContext().put("menuStringRenderer",
>>>>>>>>> menuStringRenderer);
>>>>>>>>>               screens.getContext().put("simpleEncoder",
>>>>>>>>> StringUtil.getEncoder(UtilProperties.getPropertyValue("widget",
>>>>>>>>> getName() + ".encoder")));
>>>>>>>>>               screenStringRenderer.renderScreenBegin(writer,
>>>>>>>>> screens.getContext());
>>>>>>>>>               screens.render(page);

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