Hi Michael, I think we agree, just a difference in semantics. What I mean by web is anything CSS, JavaScript, or HTML, not FreeMarker (for now). The smaller the effort the bigger the chances to move this initiative forward, so yeah I think we're on the same page.
On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Michael Brohl <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Taher, > > I agree that all ressources like images, css etc. should be moved away in a > foundation component. I am not sure if I can follow your suggestion to move > everything web-related from the framework to another component. In my mind, > the foundation for the UI development (Renderer, macro libraries, > transformers etc.) should reside in the framework. > > I think it would be also a too big move to rewrite/move all this at once and > has not enough visible impact for users to be highly prioritized. > > For me, a new and modern UI would be the highest priority at the moment. I > hope that this will attract more contributors and more users to grow the > community. > > After this, more restructuring and separation can be done. > > At ecomify, we are currently evaluating if we can set a team on it to > implement a new UI. It will be a lot of work and a big effort for us but I > think it's worth it. We'll see how this will work out and how we can > contribute this back to the project. > > Best regards, > > Michael Brohl > ecomify GmbH > www.ecomify.de > > > Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb: > >> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps >> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get >> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next >> actions could be the following: >> >> - Create a base theme >> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery, >> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look >> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme. >> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in >> the theme. >> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme >> >> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do >> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time >> until we get some action first :) >> >> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>> >>>> Hi James, >>>> >>>> thanks for your suggestions. >>>> >>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it >>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure if we >>>> want >>>> to go so far. >>> >>> >>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF >>> >>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp >>> and both are parts of JavaEE. >>> >>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for JSF. >>> Not >>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), but >>> the >>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for that. >>> >>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming and >>>> have >>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on the >>>> same >>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a >>>> client-side >>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding his own >>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework which >>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way. >>>> >>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in >>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap. >>>> >>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like >>>> Bootstrap >>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this framework. >>>> That >>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine >>>> obsolete: >>>> >>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents in >>>>> an >>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and make >>>>> it >>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for the >>>>> target >>>>> library. >>>> >>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with >>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented [1] and >>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free templates out >>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic >>>> theme, >>>> users can put their own themes on top of it. >>>> >>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short >>>> amount >>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long >>>> project. >>>> >>>> What do others think? >>> >>> >>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is >>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this >>> could >>> be possibly discussed. >>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd say >>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz at >>> other >>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even an >>> API >>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest... >>> >>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React (initially >>> from >>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about Angular >>> 2! I >>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people using >>> it >>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with them... >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Michael Brohl >>>> ecomify GmbH >>>> www.ecomify.de >>>> >>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp >>>> >>>> >>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Michael and all, >>>>> >>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to >>>>> OFBiz >>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this >>>>> thread. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> James Yong >>>>> >>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Sharan, >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks for the reminder. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I just >>>>>> want >>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far >>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current technological >>>>>> stack: >>>>>> >>>>>> - new themes should be responsive >>>>>> >>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap and >>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure and >>>>>> also >>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this >>>>>> >>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and >>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put >>>>>> together or how the screens get their data. >>>>>> >>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI >>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents >>>>>> in >>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and >>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes >>>>>> for >>>>>> the target library. >>>>>> >>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less >>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design work >>>>>> beforehand >>>>>> >>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a UX or >>>>>> web design expert) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure that >>>>>> this >>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI wise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve and >>>>>>> Stannah. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it working) and >>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's only a >>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk then >>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly for >>>>>>> us. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> Sharan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to share at >>>>>>>> the moment? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Michael Brohl >>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH >>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Michael >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit : >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities to >>>>>>>>>> improve >>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should put some >>>>>>>>>> focused >>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as a modern ERP. >>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers will be >>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and further >>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this: can you give us >>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where we stand? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information >>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object as >>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb with the >>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break. >>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the groovy >>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy DSL and >>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nicolas >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> > >
