On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Inge Wallin <i...@lysator.liu.se> wrote: > On Sunday, January 27, 2013 03:33:20 Rob Weir wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Inge Wallin <i...@lysator.liu.se> wrote: > >> > On Wednesday, January 23, 2013 21:33:04 Rob Weir wrote: > >> >> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Inge Wallin <i...@lysator.liu.se> >> >> wrote: > >> >> > On Friday, January 18, 2013 15:21:01 Ian Lynch wrote: > >> >> >> On 18 January 2013 13:18, Fernando Cassia <fcas...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch <ianrly...@gmail.com> >> >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> >> What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google Docs. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source, ´we´ > >> >> >> > could do *several* things. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Well yes, but it is more efficient to do one thing that covers many > >> >> >> needs rather than try and do many things with not enough resource. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO... GDocs is > >> >> >> > fine... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> A lot of people would say yes but GDocs is not open source. > >> >> >> Some people would say MS Office is fine and others would say >> >> >> Koffice. > >> >> >> Question is whether or not we want a long term sustainable project > >> >> >> for the community or one that will get more and more marginalised. > >> >> > > >> >> > As a side note: While I am happy that KOffice is mentioned now and > >> >> > then on this list, I think it would be proper to mention the Calligra > >> >> > Suite instead. KOffice is not being developed any more while Calligra > >> >> > is running full speed ahead. > >> >> > >> >> Hi Inge, > >> >> > >> >> Thanks for the reminder. Getting people to recognize a name change > >> >> takes time, and repetition. We still see on a daily basis people > >> >> expressing surprise to learn that OpenOffice is now at Apache. > >> >> > >> >> Are you planning to be at the KDE conference in July in Bilbao? It > >> >> might good to have someone from AOO attend. Aside from the obvious > >> >> common interest in ODF, it would be interesting to see if there are > >> >> any other opportunities for collaboration. > >> > > >> > Yes, I will definitely be in Bilbao unless something very serious > >> > happens. I would love to meet you there and talk about collaboration > >> > between our projects. > >> > > >> > I can see two areas where we could start immediately without much talk: > >> > > >> > 1. test documents > >> > > >> > Calligra has ~3500 test documents in ODF (odt, ods, odp), MS binary >> > (doc, > >> > xls, ppt) and MS xml (docx, xlsx, pptx) formats. I suppose that there is > >> > a test suite available for AOO as well. > >> > >> Are these documents "from the wild" or documents created specifically > >> for tests? I remember hearing Jos describe a technique for creating > >> test documents that sounded interesting. > > They are not hand hacked xml but where created specifically for testing the > respective function by testers employed by Nokia. They where done originally > for the document viewer application in the Nokia N900 and then later > extended for the viewer in the Nokia N9. > >> I recall Microsoft having a collection of test documents as well, that > >> they shared at a plugfest a few years ago. > > Must have been one that I didn't attend. :/ It would be interesting to see > those documents. >
It was mainly ODF-documents created in MS Office. It was a sizable set of test docs. They made it available for use during the Plugfest but also said the documents might be made available to a more general test collection if other companies made their test documents availalbe as well. >> I have a few "interesting" test documents, but the Symphony test > >> documents are IBM-internal right now, since many of them are customer > >> files that we may not share. But if there is interest (across > >> projects) in creating a collection of test office documents in several > >> formats, then I would investigate to see if there are some that we > >> could contribute. > > The most "interessting" one we have is created by MS Office. It's valid ODT > but not structured the same way as LO/AOO normally does it. We had to work a > lot to make that render correctly. :) > >> > The documents that Calligra has access to are structured not only > >> > according to format but also to feature, such as pictures, text > >> > formatting, graphics (smart art, etc), and so on. > >> > >> Excellent. > >> > >> > It would be great if we could work to create an even bigger and better > >> > database of test documents which covers even more features. > >> > >> Yes. But where to do this? OASIS is not really set up to do this. > >> (and it sounds like it would be best to do more than just ODF test > >> documents), It could be done in the AOO project, but that may make it > >> difficult (politically) for some to contribute. Without arguing the > >> reasons for that view, I think it is (sadly) current reality. Other > >> choices might be the ODF Toolkit project (where we have the ODF > >> Validator) or OfficeShots (which allows automated online testing). > > Or just continue with the KDE repository? Check out: > svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/tests/calligratests > > Getting a KDE commit account is much easier than an Apache one. > Easier on the KDE side, perhaps. But the review/approval cycle on my side, due to IBM process requirements, goes up significantly for participating/contributing in open source projects where we are not already participants. But it is worth doing if that is the best fit for everyone else. I have a good contact at Microsoft. I'll check with him to get his thoughts/constraints. Does anyone know what LibreOffice has in terms of test documents? Question: what is the license on the Nokia-authored test documents? -Rob >> > 2. Interoperability and ODF confomance. > >> > > >> > It would be good if you could give a high priority to bugs which make > >> > interoperability with other ODF suites such as Calligra. In Calligra we > >> > already have a special bug category for ODF related bugs and these are > >> > always treated with speed and priority. > >> > >> We have an XML "product" in Bugzilla where ODF bugs are categorized, > >> as well as other XML-related import/export issues in XHTML, XSLT, etc. > >> But if you have a specific set of ODF issues that you think we should > >> raise in priority, posting that list to this mailing list would help. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> -Rob > >> > >> > What do you say? > >> > > >> > -Inge > >> >> > >> >> Regards, > >> >> > >> >> -Rob > >> >> > >> >> > -Inge > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing apps in > >> >> >> > JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with GMail > >> >> >> > and it was using over 150 MB of RAM... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Not really a big problem with modern multi-gig computers (including > >> >> >> future mobile technologies). Less of a problem than stuff that only > >> >> >> works on one device or needs a lot of effort to port across > >> >> >> multi-devices, operating systems etc. To me open standards are worth > >> >> >> paying a bit of a price for in terms of machine resources since the > >> >> >> latter continue to grow and get less expensive. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would use the > >> >> >> > PC´s CPU and horsepower and deliver great speed to even to lowest > >> >> >> > powered devices. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Assuming you have someone to host it for you. O a global scale that > >> >> >> is not trivial to do which is probably why Google with all its > >> >> >> resources does what it does. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > But of course, that´s going in a different direction from the > >> >> >> > current fad.... > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Swimming against global trends is not a sensible idea when you have > >> >> >> very limited resources and very little time. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > FC
