On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 12:12:02 -0700 Julien Le Dem <[email protected]> wrote: > I had an idea about this topic. > What if we say the offset is always a multiple of 16? (I'm saying 16, but > it works with 8 or 32 or any other power of 2). > Then we store in the footer the offset divided by 16. > That means you need to pad each row group by up to 16 bytes. > But now the max size of the file is 32GB. > > Personally, I still don't like having arbitrary limits but 32GB seems a lot > less like a restricting limit than 2GB. > If we get crazy, we add this to the footer as metadata and the writer gets > to pick whether you multiply offsets by 32, 64 or 128 if ten years from now > we start having much bigger files. > The size of the padding becomes negligible over the size of the file. > > Thoughts?
That's an interesting suggestion. I would be fine with it personally, provided the multiplier is either large enough (say, 64) or embedded in the footer. That said, I would first wait for the outcome of the experiment with LZ4 compression. If it negates the additional cost of 64-bit offsets, then we should not bother with this multiplier mechanism. Regards Antoine. > > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2025 at 6:19 AM Alkis Evlogimenos > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > We've analyzed a large footer from our production environment to understand > > byte distribution across its fields. The detailed analysis is available in > > the proposal document here: > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kZS_DM_J8n6NKff3vDQPD1Y4xyDdRceYFANUE0bOfb0/edit?tab=t.o2lsuuyi8rw6#heading=h.26i914tjp4fk > > . > > > > To illustrate the impact of 64-bit fields, we conducted an experiment where > > all proposed 32-bit fields in the Flatbuf footer were changed to 64-bit. > > This resulted in a *40% increase* in footer size. > > > > That said, LZ4 manages to compress this away. We will do some more testing > > with 64 bit offsets/numvals/sizes and revert back. If it all goes well we > > can resolve this by going 64 bit. > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2025 at 12:49 PM Jan Finis > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Alkis, > > > > > > one more very simple argument why you want these offsets to be i64: > > > What if you want to store a single value larger than 4GB? I know this > > > sounds absurd at first, but some use cases might want to store data that > > > can sometimes be very large (e.g. blob data, or insanely complex geo > > data). > > > And it would be a shame if that would mean that they cannot use Parquet > > at > > > all. > > > > > > Thus, my opinion here is that we can limit to i32 all fields that the > > file > > > writer has under control, e.g., the number of rows within a row group, > > but > > > we shouldn't limit any values that a file writer doesn't have under > > > control, as they fully depend on the input data. > > > > > > Note though that this means that the number of values in a column chunk > > > could also exceed i32, if a user has nested data with more than 4 billion > > > entries. With such data, the file writer again couldn't do anything to > > > avoid writing a row group with more > > > than i32 values, as a single row may not span multiple row groups. That > > > being said, I think that nested data with more than 4 billion entries is > > > less likely than a single large blob of 4 billion bytes. > > > > > > I know that smaller row groups is what most / all engines prefer, but we > > > have to make sure the format also works for edge cases. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Jan > > > > > > Am Mi., 15. Okt. 2025 um 05:05 Uhr schrieb Adam Reeve > > > <[email protected] > > >: > > > > > > > Hi Alkis > > > > > > > > Thanks for all your work on this proposal. > > > > > > > > I'd be in favour of keeping the offsets as i64 and not reducing the > > > maximum > > > > row group size, even if this results in slightly larger footers. I've > > > heard > > > > from some of our users within G-Research that they do have files with > > row > > > > groups > 2 GiB. This is often when they use lower-level APIs to write > > > > Parquet that don't automatically split data into row groups, and they > > > > either write a single row group for simplicity or have some logical > > > > partitioning of data into row groups. They might also have wide tables > > > with > > > > many columns, or wide array/tensor valued columns that lead to large > > row > > > > groups. > > > > > > > > In many workflows we don't read Parquet with a query engine that > > supports > > > > filters and skipping row groups, but just read all rows, or directly > > > > specify the row groups to read if there is some known logical > > > partitioning > > > > into row groups. I'm sure we could work around a 2 or 4 GiB row group > > > size > > > > limitation if we had to, but it's a new constraint that reduces the > > > > flexibility of the format and makes more work for users who now need to > > > > ensure they don't hit this limit. > > > > > > > > Do you have any measurements of how much of a difference 4 byte offsets > > > > make to footer sizes in your data, with and without the optional LZ4 > > > > compression? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 at 21:02, Alkis Evlogimenos > > > > <alkis.evlogimenos-z4fuwbjybqlnpcjqcok8iauzikbjl...@public.gmane.org> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > From the comments on the [EXTERNAL] Parquet metadata > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kZS_DM_J8n6NKff3vDQPD1Y4xyDdRceYFANUE0bOfb0/edit?tab=t.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > document, > > > > > it appears there's a general consensus on most aspects, with the > > > > exception > > > > > of the relative 32-bit offsets for column chunks. > > > > > > > > > > I'm starting this thread to discuss this topic further and work > > > towards a > > > > > resolution. Adam Reeve suggested raising the limitation to 2^32, and > > he > > > > > confirmed that Java does not have any issues with this. I am open to > > > this > > > > > change as it increases the limit without introducing any drawbacks. > > > > > > > > > > However, some still feel that a 2^32-byte limit for a row group is > > too > > > > > restrictive. I'd like to understand these specific use cases better. > > > From > > > > > my perspective, for most engines, the row group is the primary unit > > of > > > > > skipping, making very large row groups less desirable. In our fleet's > > > > > workloads, it's rare to see row groups larger than 100MB, as anything > > > > > larger tends to make statistics-based skipping ineffective. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
