Hey Chris and Cesar, I'm glad to hear that!
Chris, I got your point. Thank you for sharing. Okay, on my side, I will work on tutorials using real machinery but mainly SIMULATORS to help the new students play without real PLCs. If someone here would like to connect to share any ideas or provide assistance, do not hesitate to get in touch at doleron @ gmail com Best, Luiz Em dom., 7 de jul. de 2024 às 18:07, Christofer Dutz < christofer.d...@c-ware.de> escreveu: > Hi all, > > I do agree that with PLC4PY we could reach a younger audience. One that > would be more inclined to try something new. > > The problem I see, is that these folks don’t have access to the production > machinery, because the gatekeepers to the shopfloor systems are old-school > automation engineers. > > When I started PLC4X I first concentrated on IT … making it easy for > software engineers to write software for industrial automation sector. I > talked on IT conferences, published in IT magazines and Blogs. And people > were really digging into it. > > Unfortunately, I learned way too late, that I was targeting the wrong > audience. While I got the IT folks on board really easy (compared to the > others). Most of them stopped digging deeper when they noticed that they > need industrial Hardware for actually doing something sensible with it. And > when talking to the people with the hardware, we usually got disqualified > by the Automation gatekeepers asking stuff like: > > > * Are you ZYZ certified? > * What’s your 24/7 on premise support offering worldwide? > > That’s why at least for the first question I came up with the concept of > passive-mode drivers. For the second I usually replied: “we don’t have one”. > > I think the main problem of PLC4X is that the access to the equipment is > guarded by hordes of old-school automation dinosaurs. And I doubt Python > support will change anything here :-( > > But hey … prove me wrong … and if I can help you, I’ll do what I can to do > so. > > But as you mention it: > "Economics is the study of how we choose to use limited resources to > obtain the maximum satisfaction of unlimited human wants" … I have limited > time available, if I want to have a life and I personally have found out > that working with wood in my shed brings more satisfaction for myself > compared to wearing me out for an industry that doesn’t seem to want me to > do anything. > > Chris > > > Von: Cesar Garcia <cesar.gar...@ceos.com.ve> > Datum: Sonntag, 7. Juli 2024 um 22:14 > An: dev@plc4x.apache.org <dev@plc4x.apache.org> > Betreff: Re: AW: [D] How to seed community engagement? > Hello Luis, > > Indeed, in the world of automation there is a lot of use and custom, and a > lot of resistance to change, which is generally created by big brands. > > As you point out, within the group we share the vision that we should > introduce PLC4X in universities and bet on the future. > > Some of us are working precisely so that the learning curve of PLC4X does > not hinder its adoption, bringing it closer to commercial components. > > Kind regards, > > El dom, 7 jul 2024 a las 14:15, Luiz doleron (<dole...@gmail.com>) > escribió: > > > Hi, Chris! > > > > I have more than 20 years in the TIC industry and Python is not my > > preferred language for real-world projects or even for hobby projects. > > > > My particular technical opinion about Python is that this language is an > > engineering mistake (pythonists, no offense intended). > > > > However, I use Python always when it is required to use Python. > > > > Said that, > > > > "Admittedly this doesn’t seem to have worked or we simply don’t know it." > > > > My suggestion is to rethink the strategy: > > > > So far, PLC4X focused on the old guys in the automation industry. This > > previous experience showed that these guys are (usually) less prone to > > changes. > > They use the same tools for years long and probably most of them are not > > inclined to spend energy or take risks to embrace new ways or tools. > > > > My suggestion is to focus on the enormous volume of engineering students > > playing educational/researching projects. > > > > - Tutorials showing how to use PLC4X to communicate with PLC Simulators > > - Easy support for Python and Java > > - Prebuilt packages like pip and maven > > - Simple runnable examples, lots of > > - Mix market: YouTube, StackOverflow, Medium, etc > > > > My feeling is that, in a second moment, this new public can form the > > critical mass to drive PLC4X for a more shopfloor-oriented, industrial > > scenario moving the proprietary alternatives to obsolescence. > > > > I would like to highlight that I am not criticizing PLC4X here. Quite the > > opposite. IMO PLC4X can play a game-changing. > > > > From the schoolbook: > > > > "Economics is the study of how we choose to use limited resources to > obtain > > the maximum satisfaction of unlimited human wants" > > > > Thus, this is not about Python or Java or specifically code. My > > understanding about the code is that PLC4X as is (i.e., keeping netty) > can > > rapidly take the scene control. > > > > Sorry if I'm stretching this talk for too long. I only would like to tell > > what I can see from an external perspective. > > > > Best regards, > > > > -- > > Luiz Carlos d´Oleron > > > > > -- > *CEOS Automatización, C.A.* > *GALPON SERVICIO INDUSTRIALES Y NAVALES FA, C.A.,* > *PISO 1, OFICINA 2, AV. RAUL LEONI, SECTOR GUAMACHITO,* > > *FRENTE A LA ASOCIACION DE GANADEROS,BARCELONA,EDO. ANZOATEGUI* > *Ing. César García* > > *Cel: +58 414-760.98.95* > > *Hotline Técnica SIEMENS: 0800 1005080* > > *Email: support.aan.automat...@siemens.com > <support.aan.automat...@siemens.com>* > -- Luiz Carlos d´Oleron
