Some quick thoughts regarding the app-packages topic, I was the owner of a cluster management product development a few years ago, the product can help to build a HPC cluster within 15-30 minutes from bare metal. The major challenge for me was to define the boundary between product feature and best practice. Each customer is different, from driver required for HW to the IP address planning, there were so many miscellaneous requirements on product enhancements. If we put everything in product, it may triple our delivery effort and each small feature may can only help a couple of customers. We had to try our best to generalize the requirements as product feature and put more best practice guide or sample in community/support channel.
Back to the topic on app-packages, I see it's in similar position as cookbook/recipe in Chef. It's good enough for some basic customer cases, but must be customized/enhanced to support advanced customer cases. So basic app-packages could be as a sample in Yarn package, but advanced case or customization should only be published in certain community way as it does need the customer's effort to make it fit certain environment. Just my two cents, Lei -----Original Message----- From: Josh Elser [mailto:els...@apache.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2016 10:58 PM To: dev@slider.incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Next Steps for Slider & First-Class Services in YARN (YARN-4692) Thanks for the proposal, Gour! Interesting thought. I think it makes sense. As YARN is maturing, long-lived services becoming a primitive is a natural progression. Slider is likely at the forefront of building such a primitive on YARN (from a lot of great planning/design from Steve). I think this would definitely be an interesting conversation to be had with YARN (if the other podling members are of the same mindset). I think how this plays out would require a bit of planning/coordination from the Hadoop PMC side. Now, there is the other half of Slider: the app-packages. My gut reaction is that YARN would have no interest in owning/maintaining these. This is a bit concerning to me because Slider on its own really isn't that exciting. It's the app-packages that make it so enticing -- build a zip, install it to your cluster, and suddenly users can start dynamically creating clusters (HBase, Accumulo, Storm, etc). I would be strongly opposed to any plan to merge Slider into YARN/Hadoop without a clear path forward on where the app-packages would live. This is extremely important to me. I'd love to see where this conversation can go. - Josh Gour Saha wrote: > Slider community, > > > The YARN team is discussing in > YARN-4692<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-4692> on how to add > "first class services" directly to YARN. Some of the names in the discussion > document should be familiar: that's because Slider is essentially the > original long-lived application in YARN. > > > With YARN-4692<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-4692>, it is > apparent that the Apache Hadoop YARN community is working towards providing > direct support for long-lived services. I think we need to look at that > proposal and think "where and how does Slider relate to this". > > > Apache Slider (incubating) has been in the business of creating and managing > long-running services in YARN for a couple of years. Today it is being used > in production YARN clusters across several companies (big and small). Several > production-grade applications (data and non-data) are available as sample > packages. A good number of them have been contributed by interested parties > like Lucidworks contributing a Solr Slider Application Package and > DataTorrent contributing a Kafka Slider Application Package. > > > Slider has been pretty good at taking existing applications and turning them > into long-lived services in YARN. YARN offers the core scheduling, execution > and failure reporting functions; slider takes that and adds: advanced > container placement (history; anti-affine, escalation policies), > configuration, dynamic binding, monitoring, failure handling, and an API for > clients. It's also driven a lot of the > YARN-896<https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/YARN-896> "long-lived > services" development: long-lived failure resilience, the YARN registry, > container-preservation over YARN restarts. Big chunks of that code actually > came from the Slider team. This was always a goal of the work even in its > Hoya predecessor: show that YARN can be used to host applications like HBase, > and identify where it can be be improved. > > > What does it mean for Slider if YARN starts doing this directly? > > > Slider provides a lot of the basic functionalities for long-running services > proposed in YARN-4692. It is a universal YARN app-master and lets > application-owners focus on their application functionalities, while it > handles the internals of orchestrating services on YARN. > > > Which means: we have an opportunity here to contribute the core of slider > into YARN itself, and, with it in YARN, use it as the basis for the full > TODO-list of YARN-4692. > > > The YARN team gets the stable codebase that's evolved over the past few > years: something to deploy applications in a YARN cluster. What does Slider > get? We'd get to be the foundation for long lived YARN services with the new > work on top. > > > Would this work? What's wrong with the idea? How do we do it if we want to go > with it? > > > I would like to call upon the community to weigh in their thoughts and > opinions on this topic. > > -Gour > >
