btw - I'd prefer reviews@s.a.o instead of github@ to remain more neutral and flexible.
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Patrick Wendell <pwend...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Chris, > > Would the following be consistent with the Apache guidelines? > > (a) We establish a culture of not having overall design discussions on > github. Design discussions should to occur on JIRA or on the dev list. > IMO this is pretty much already true, but there are a few exceptions. > (b) We add a mailing list called github@s.a.o which receives the > github traffic. This way everything is available in Apache infra. > (c) Because of our use of JIRA it might make sense to have an > issues@s.a.o list as well similar to what YARN and other projects use. > > The github chatter is so noisy that I think, overall, it decreases > engagement with the official developer list. This is the opposite of > what we want. > > - Patrick > > On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) > <chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: >> Hi Everyone, >> >> The biggest thing is simply making sure that the dev@<project>a.o list is >> meaningful >> and that meaningful development isn't going on elsewhere that constitute >> "decisions" for the Apache project as reified in code contributions and >> overall >> stewardship of the effort. >> >> I noticed in a few emails from Github relating to comments on Github Pull >> Requests >> some conversation which I deemed to be relevant to the project, so I >> brought this >> up and it came up during graduation. >> >> Here's a general rule of thumb: it's fine if devs converse e.g., on >> Github, etc., >> and even if it's project discussion *so long as* that relevant project >> discussion >> makes it way in some form to the actual, bona fide project's >> "dev@<project>a.o list", >> giving others in the community not necessarily on Github or watching >> Github or part >> of that non Apache conversation to comment, and be part of the community >> led decisions >> for the project there. >> >> Making its way to that bona fide Apache project dev list can happen in >> several ways. >> >> 1. by simply direct 1:1 mapping from Github comments which I see Apache >> project >> related dev discussion on from time to time and believe fits the criteria >> I'm describing >> above to the project's dev@<project>.a.o list. >> >> 2. by not 1:1 mapping all Github conversation to the dev@<project>.a.o >> list, but to >> some other list, e.g., github@<project>a.o, for example (or any of the >> others being >> discussed) *so long as*, and this is key, that those discussions on Github >> get summarized >> on the dev@<project>.a.o list giving everyone an opportunity to >> participate in the development >> by being *here at Apache*. >> >> 3. By not worrying about Github at all and simply doing all the >> development here at >> the ASF. >> >> 4. Others.. >> >> My feeling is that some combination of #1 and #2 can pass muster, and the >> Apache Spark >> community can decide. That said, noise reduction can also lead to loss of >> precision and >> accuracy and don't be surprised in reducing that noise if some key thing >> makes it onto >> a Github PR but didn't make it onto the dev list b/c we are all human and >> forgot to summarize >> it there. Even if that happens, we assume everyone has good intentions and >> we simply >> address those issues when/if they come up. >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sandy Ryza <sandy.r...@cloudera.com> >> Reply-To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org> >> Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:19 AM >> To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org> >> Subject: Re: Signal/Noise Ratio >> >>>Hadoop subprojects (MR, YARN, HDFS) each have a "dev" list that contains >>>discussion as well as a single email whenever a JIRA is filed, and an >>>"issues" list with all the JIRA activity. I think this works out pretty >>>well. Subscribing just to the dev list, I can keep up with changes that >>>are going to be made and follow the ones I care about. And the issues >>>list >>>is there if I want the firehose. >>> >>>Is Apache actually prescriptive that a list with "dev" in its name needs >>>to >>>contain all discussion? If so, most projects I've followed are violating >>>this. >>> >>> >>>On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:54 PM, Kay Ousterhout >>><k...@eecs.berkeley.edu>wrote: >>> >>>> It looks like there's at least one other apache project, jclouds, that >>>> sends the github notifications to a separate notifications@ list (see >>>> >>>> >>>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201402.mbox/%3 >>>>C1391721862.67613.YahooMailNeo%40web172602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com%3E >>>> ). >>>> Given that many people are annoyed by getting the messages on this >>>>list, >>>> and that there is some precedent for sending them to a different list, >>>>I'd >>>> be in favor of doing that. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 6:18 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) < >>>> chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: >>>> >>>> > Sweet great job Reynold. >>>> > >>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>>> > Chief Architect >>>> > Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) >>>> > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>>> > Office: 171-283, Mailstop: 171-246 >>>> > Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov >>>> > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> > Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department >>>> > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>> > From: Reynold Xin <r...@databricks.com> >>>> > Reply-To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" < >>>> dev@spark.incubator.apache.org >>>> > > >>>> > Date: Friday, February 21, 2014 6:08 PM >>>> > To: "dev@spark.incubator.apache.org" <dev@spark.incubator.apache.org> >>>> > Subject: Re: Signal/Noise Ratio >>>> > >>>> > >FYI I submitted an ASF INFRA ticket on granting the AMPLab Jenkins >>>> > >permission to use the github commit status API. >>>> > > >>>> > >If that goes through, we can configure Jenkins to use the commit >>>>status >>>> > >API >>>> > >without leaving comments on the pull requests. >>>> > > >>>> > >https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7367 >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > >On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Ethan Jewett <esjew...@gmail.com> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > >> Thanks for the pointer Aaron. Very helpful. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I won't harp on this any more after this email: my reading is that >>>>the >>>> > >>main >>>> > >> concern is archiving discussion, which could be achieved using a >>>> > >>separate >>>> > >> mailing list. Major decisions should clearly happen on the dev >>>>list so >>>> > >> everyone is informed, but I don't see a situation where that hadn't >>>> been >>>> > >> happening anyway (which is why I read the dev list regularly, >>>> sometimes >>>> > >> look at the archives, and am struggling with the Github messages >>>>and >>>> > >> pitying those not using Gmail filters). >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Aaron Davidson >>>><ilike...@gmail.com> >>>> > >> wrote: >>>> > >> >>>> > >> > I don't have an official policy to point you to, but Chris >>>>Mattmann >>>> > >>(our >>>> > >> > Apache project mentor) summarized some of the points in this >>>>thread, >>>> > >>and >>>> > >> > here is the original concern that caused us to make this change: >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >>>> >>>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201402.mbox/%3 >>>> > >>>>>>CCAAS6=7hkCiT093nXVMcUus8Z-5XCDn=cQ5trjN_Kz9ARe9H=r...@mail.gmail.com%3E >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:08 AM, Ethan Jewett >>>><esjew...@gmail.com> >>>> > >> wrote: >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> > > Or not off-list. Sorry folks :-) Anyone should feel free to >>>> educate >>>> > >>me >>>> > >> > > either on the policy or on mailing list use ;-) >>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > On Friday, February 21, 2014, Ethan Jewett <esjew...@gmail.com> >>>> > >>wrote: >>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > > Hi Aaron, >>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > Off-list message here. Can you point me to this policy? Due >>>>to >>>> > >>some >>>> > >> > > > previous experiences here, I'm under the impression that it >>>> > >>doesn't >>>> > >> > > exist. >>>> > >> > > > I can't find it on the Apache website. >>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > Thanks, >>>> > >> > > > Ethan >>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > > On Tuesday, February 18, 2014, Aaron Davidson < >>>> ilike...@gmail.com >>>> > >> > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ilike...@gmail.com');>> >>>> > >> > > > wrote: >>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > >> This is due, unfortunately, to Apache policies that all >>>> > >> > > >> development-related >>>> > >> > > >> discussion should take place on the dev list. As we are >>>> > >>attempting >>>> > >> to >>>> > >> > > >> graduate from an incubating project to an Apache top level >>>> > >>project, >>>> > >> > > there >>>> > >> > > >> were some concerns raised about GitHub, and the fastest >>>> solution >>>> > >>to >>>> > >> > > avoid >>>> > >> > > >> conflict related to our graduation was to CC dev@ for all >>>> GitHub >>>> > >> > > >> messages. >>>> > >> > > >> Once our graduation is complete, we may be able to find a >>>>less >>>> > >>noisy >>>> > >> > way >>>> > >> > > >> of >>>> > >> > > >> dealing with these messages. >>>> > >> > > >> >>>> > >> > > >> In the meantime, one simple solution is to filter out all >>>> > >>messages >>>> > >> > that >>>> > >> > > >> come from g...@git.apache.org and are destined to >>>> > >> > > >> dev@spark.incubator.apache.org. >>>> > >> > > >> >>>> > >> > > >> >>>> > >> > > >> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Gerard Maas < >>>> > >> gerard.m...@gmail.com> >>>> > >> > > >> wrote: >>>> > >> > > >> >>>> > >> > > >> > +1 please. >>>> > >> > > >> > >>>> > >> > > >> > >>>> > >> > > >> > On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 6:04 PM, Michael Ernest < >>>> > >> > > mfern...@cloudera.com >>>> > >> > > >> > >wrote: >>>> > >> > > >> > >>>> > >> > > >> > > +1 >>>> > >> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Heiko Braun < >>>> > >> > > >> ike.br...@googlemail.com >>>> > >> > > >> > > >wrote: >>>> > >> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > > Wouldn't it be better to move the github messages to a >>>> > >> dedicated >>>> > >> > > >> email >>>> > >> > > >> > > > list? >>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > > Regards, Heiko >>>> > >> > > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >> > > -- >>>> > >> > > >> > > Michael Ernest >>>> > >> > > >> > > Sr. Solutions Consultant >>>> > >> > > >> > > West Coast >>>> > >> > > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >> > >>>> > >> > > >> >>>> > >> > > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > >>>> > >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>
