Hugo, It's not my impression that anyone is complaining that storm-kafka-client has been exceptionally buggy, or that we haven't been fixing the issues as they crop up. The problem is that we're sitting on the fixes for way longer than is reasonable, and even if we release Storm more often, users have to go out of their way to know that they should really be using the latest storm-kafka-client rather than the one that ships with their Storm installation, because the version number of storm-kafka-client happens to not mean anything regarding compatibility with Storm.
Everyone, Most of what I've written here has already been said, but I've already written it so... I really don't see the point in going through the effort of separating connectors out to another repository if we're just going to make the other repository the second class citizen connector graveyard. The point to separating storm-kafka-client out is so it can get a release cycle different from Storm, so we can avoid the situation we're in now in the future. There's obviously a flaw in our process when we have to choose between breaking semantic versioning and releasing broken software. I agree that it would be good to release Storm a little more often, but I don't think that fully addresses my concerns. Are we willing to increment Storm's major version number if a connector needs to break its API (e.g. as I want to do in https://github.com/apache/storm/pull/2300)? I think a key observation is that Storm's core API is extremely stable. Storm and the connectors aren't usually tightly coupled in the sense that e.g. version 1.0.2 of storm-kafka-client would only work with Storm 1.0.2 and not 1.0.0, so in many cases there's no reason you wouldn't use the latest connector version instead of the one that happens to ship with the version of Storm you're using. I think it would be attractive if we could reduce the number of branches of connectors we need to maintain, and instead keep a compatibility matrix between Storm and the connector in each README, for the rare occasions when the Storm core API changes. +1 for trying out storm-kafka-client with its own release cycle and branches/subrepo/whichever way we want to separate the code, but still part of the main Storm project JIRA and mailing list. Worst case we merge it back in after a while. We may want to think about how to do that before we separate out, just so we don't release e.g. storm-kafka-client 2.3.1 and then have to merge back to Storm which is still on 2.0.0. 2018-01-31 3:36 GMT+01:00 Jungtaek Lim <kabh...@gmail.com>: > Agreed for this topic: this is not related to current release candidate and > verifying release candidate is higher priority. > For me I didn't start verifying 1.1.2 / 1.0.6 RC2 because the other topic I > initiated could affect the current release. I'll post a short notice in > that discussion thread. > > -Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR) > > 2018년 1월 31일 (수) 오전 10:58, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com>님이 작성: > > > Hit send on that too soon... > > > > This is an important discussion topic, but has no effect on the current > > RCs. Id recommend focusing on the current releases and come back to this > > after getting releases out. > > > > -Taylor > > > > > On Jan 30, 2018, at 8:51 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > Also, in the interest of getting releases out, we have 3 open RC cycles > > in flight. > > > > > > Discussion energy might be better focused on that. > > > > > > -Taylor > > > > > >> On Jan 30, 2018, at 7:52 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> On Jan 30, 2018, at 7:31 PM, Harsha <st...@harsha.io> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> In general connectors are independent of Storm run-time for > > most parts. I.e if the APIs are not changed (storm-core or trident > haven't > > changed in years except the package re-name). You can take the latest > > connector and run in storm 1.0 or higher. So the users doesn't need to > > upgrade their storm cluster just to get a latest connector upgrade. Which > > they might be doing it but by making the release separate and stating the > > minimum supported storm version for the connectors will help the users. > > >>> This makes it easier for the connectors to be released independently > > of the core/run-time and makes it easy for them to be fixed and released > > more often. But moving them to Bahir or other external project will make > it > > detached from Storm itself that it might not see any co-ordination as > > reviewers from storm will need to be aware of an external project. > > >>> My proposal would be > > >>> 1. Can we create a sub-project in git under Storm so we can move the > > connectors there and everything else related Storm applies there. > > >>> 2. Can we keep maintaining storm connectors within same repo but > > different release module for it . > > >> > > >> +1 That’s exactly my point. Just jettisoning connectors to Bahir > > without commitments from the Storm community would be a mistake. > > >> > > >> Releasing connectors independently can be handled easily at the Maven > > level. No need for a separate repo initiaially. > > >> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> This is a separate topic but can improve the release timelines if we > > have multiple release managers that are handling the maint release and > also > > main release versions. Its good to have rotation of release managers from > > PMC so that everyone will understand the process and can spread the > > responsibilities. There are threads started before but don't think they > are > > addressed or any action item is taken. We should start another thread to > > discuss this process as well. > > >> > > >> Breaking up external modules into separately released versions would > be > > a great way to indoctrinate those new to the license grooming and release > > process. Everyone could participate. > > >> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Harsha > > >> > > >> -Taylor > > >> > > >>> > > >>>> On Tue, Jan 30, 2018, at 9:49 AM, Hugo Da Cruz Louro wrote: > > >>>> I think that the bahir approach makes sense for connectors that > don’t > > >>>> fall into the "first class support” category. I am in favor of > moving > > >>>> such lower adoption connectors and have the interested communities > > >>>> support them with the most suitable release cycle. Connectors that > are > > >>>> idle, such as some examples that Jungtaek gave, we should consider > > >>>> removing them altogether, especially if they are so outdated that > they > > >>>> may not even work. > > >>>> > > >>>> Mainstream connectors such as storm-kafka-client should be kept in > the > > >>>> Storm repo. For example, Flink keeps flink-connector-kafka-0.x in > the > > >>>> Flink repo. > > >>>> > > >>>> I am in agreement with Jungtaek when he says: "fixing critical bugs > in > > >>>> storm-kafka-client should trigger release, instead of waiting for > > Storm > > >>>> core to have some fixes to be worth to release”. Storm’s release > > cadence > > >>>> is currently not very high and one can argue that Storm entirely > could > > >>>> benefit from more frequent releases. If it is sto rm-kafka-client > > >>>> triggering those releases, so be it. Moving forward I do not expect > > the > > >>>> storm-kafka-client connector to be subject to so many changes that > it > > >>>> would warrant its own release cycle. > > >>>> > > >>>> I also would like to highlight that although storm-kafka-client has > > been > > >>>> the center of this discussion, as it was mentioned in this > > >>>> thread<https://goo.gl/VY7QTG>, storm-kafka-client has had a much > less > > >>>> rocky road to stability compared to for example storm-kafka. > Therefore > > >>>> it’s worth evaluating if the challenges that we have faced with > storm- > > >>>> kafka-client have been out of norm for such an important and complex > > >>>> feature, and if they warrant significant changes in how we do > things. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks, > > >>>> Hugo > > >>>> > > >>>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 9:18 PM, Jungtaek Lim > > >>>> <kabh...@gmail.com<mailto:kabh...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Let me add a proof of my opinion: major patch of storm-eventhubs > > hasn't > > >>>> been getting even a comment over 4 months. > > >>>> https://github.com/apache/storm/pull/2322 > > >>>> > > >>>> I'd rather want to discuss regarding discontinue supporting > > officially if > > >>>> we no longer interest of, or we don't have resource to support, or > any > > >>>> valid reasons. If we agree on discontinue supporting officially, we > > can > > >>>> move out to other repo. and let it self maintained. It may be able > to > > get > > >>>> attention and have enough contributors so that we feel better to get > > to > > >>>> Storm core Repository again, or it can be silently forgotten. It > > shouldn't > > >>>> affect Storm core repository at any case. > > >>>> > > >>>> 2018년 1월 30일 (화) 오후 2:03, Jungtaek Lim <kabh...@gmail.com>님이 작성: > > >>>> > > >>>> If we worry about breaking somethings along with our > > >>>> users/consumers/distributors, picking one of less used/updated > > connector as > > >>>> experiment makes more sense to me. It's OK if we want to pick one of > > most > > >>>> active and widely used connector intentionally to accelerate > > experiment. > > >>>> > > >>>> Decoupling connectors and moving to other repo. like Bahir will make > > it > > >>>> clear who are having interest of which connectors. storm-eventhubs > for > > >>>> example, major code contributions were done from MS developers. Now > > they > > >>>> are gone, and I don't know even storm-eventhubs are compatible with > > recent > > >>>> Azure Eventhub. That's just a one of them. I've seen many connectors > > in > > >>>> same, or similar, or possible (say truck number 1) situation. > > >>>> > > >>>> -Jungtaek Lim (HeartSaVioR) > > >>>> > > >>>> 2018년 1월 30일 (화) 오후 1:30, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com>님이 작성: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On Jan 29, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Jungtaek Lim <kabh...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> - Do we ensure they're all maintained? > > >>>> -- Did we exclude inactive committers/PMCs for connector's committer > > >>>> > > >>>> sponsors, and do they have enough committer sponsors after that? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Good point. We’ve had some sponsors go silent recently. Maybe ping > > >>>> sponsors and ask if they wish to maintain sponsorship? > > >>>> > > >>>> As a sponsor for a number of connectors, I’ll check on the ones I’ve > > >>>> sponsored. > > >>>> > > >>>> - Do they all worth to keep maintaining in Storm main repository? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Again, that’s a question of whether there is user/dev interest. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- Should we trigger release if we find and resolve critical/blocker > > issue > > >>>> from them? If not, why we allow to leave the thing which is in main > > >>>> repository as inconsistent state? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Some are tied to fairly well established protocols, some target > really > > >>>> volatile APIs. Bug reports and mailing list activity may not be a > good > > >>>> status indicator. > > >>>> > > >>>> Storm’s Kafka integration was the initial model for the “batteries > > >>>> included” impetus behind `external`. If we want to evolve how that > > works, > > >>>> why not start there, see what works/doesn’t work, and adapt. > > >>>> > > >>>> I don’t want to shock our users/consumers/distributors. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -Taylor > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >
