On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 2:13 AM, Imesh Gunaratne <im...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi All, > > It's really nice to see the enthusiasm on re-igniting Stratos and starting > a new journey. The day Lakmal proposed this I challenged the idea for > several hours and analyzed it's pros & cons. This thread has already > discussed those in detail. > > IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should be simple enough to do the > following: > > docker run -d -p 8080:8080 stratos >> > stratos login https://docker-host:8080/ > > stratos add platform kubernetes https://kubernetes-master/ > > stratos add platform mesos https://mesos-master/ > > stratos add platform swarm https://swarm-host/ > > stratos add platform aws-ecs > > stratos deploy tomcat --platform=kubernetes > > stratos deploy tomcat --platform=mesos > > stratos deploy tomcat --platform=swarm > > stratos deploy tomcat --platform=ecs > > > > Added above with some small changes to the doc. For eg. we may need to support multiple k8s runtime in same deployment. > Architecturally Stratos should be able to run using a light-weight single > binary distribution and a key/value store like etcd for persistence. An API > server can be exposed on the same binary and a CLI can be provided for user > interaction. At a later stage an attractive UI can be introduced. > > I was evaluating a similar platform called Rancher very recently and they > are also doing almost the same [1], but with a different vision and a > strategy: > > - The first main difference is rather than adding existing Container > Cluster Management Systems (CCMS) to Rancher, Rancher try to setup those > from scratch and manage them. I don't think a such system should manage > underlying CCMS. > - The next is that Rancher implements health checks [2] and scheduling > [3] of containers. IMO those should be handled by the underlying CCMS. > Almost all the CCMSs provide those features. > - The other is implementing a single load balancer extension [4]. > Rancher only supports haproxy, IMO a such solution should have support for > many different load balancers depending on the platform the containers are > deployed (ex: AWS-ECS, GCE-K8S). > > [1] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/ > [2] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#health-checks > [3] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#container-scheduling > [4] http://docs.rancher.com/rancher/concepts/#load-balancer > > Thanks > > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:10 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <lahi...@wso2.com> > wrote: > >> Good article Akila. Yes, i think we need to define the scope for first >> phase. >> >> Tenant and identity management would be important with first phase, as >> core Stratos services. >> >> In second phase, we can look at few features to be implemented as value >> additions, like follows. >> List from Gartner is also interesting [1]. See the following list of >> features. Out of those, I think something like environment management + >> environment promotion is something Stratos can offer as an value added >> service. Also, if we can also handle Autoscaling for the PaaSes which don't >> have it, it would be good. >> >> [image: paas criteria categories] >> <http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/files/2015/07/paas-criteria-categories1.png> >> >> >> [1] >> http://blogs.gartner.com/richard-watson/dont-always-evaluate-paas-list-criteria-list/ >> >> Thanks. >> >> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Akila Ravihansa Perera < >> raviha...@apache.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> While doing some online research on Multi-PaaS deployments, I found this >>> white paper [1], "PaaSHopper: Policy-driven middleware for multi-PaaS >>> environments", which proposes exactly what we are trying to do here. >>> >>> According to the paper, following are the challenges faced by users when >>> deploying to multi-PaaS environments. >>> >>> - Heterogeneity in development and deployment. >>> There are a lot of vendor-specific solutions in PaaS world for similar >>> architectural concepts. Because of that portability and interoperability is >>> restrained. Also there is a risk of vendor lock-in due to complexities in >>> migrating to a different PaaS. >>> >>> - Fine-grained control over execution and storage. >>> There can be security and legal concerns over the geographical location >>> of processing and storage of data. Also service providers need control over >>> how these PaaS environments are being utilized (based on policy model) to >>> minimize the cost. >>> >>> PaaSHopper is a PaaS abstraction layer on top of different PaaS >>> environments. It enables control over application deployment and execution >>> through a policy-based model. However, I couldn't find a downloadable >>> product or open source implementation of it. >>> >>> >>> Advantages of proposed Stratos 5.0 solution to service providers as I >>> see it; >>> >>> - Service providers can use hybrid cloud deployments to reduce the >>> cost. >>> Different PaaS providers may support different features but depending on >>> the use case of service providers PaaS environment selection can be >>> optimized. >>> >>> - Improved availability and scalability by deploying to multiple PaaS >>> environments through a single platform. >>> >>> - Improved interoperability of services deployed on muti-PaaS >>> environments. Stratos needs a good service discovery model to support this. >>> >>> - Portability. Service providers should be able to move to a different >>> PaaS without any changes to application code. Deployment and execution >>> aspects are offloaded to Stratos. >>> >>> >>> I think we need to discuss and clearly define the scope of Stratos in >>> this newly proposed architecture. We might have to come up with a DSL to >>> describe services and environments. >>> >>> [1] >>> https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/470906/3/Walraven-JISA-15.pdf >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Lakmal Warusawithana <lak...@wso2.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Great explanation Lahiru. Supporting multiple PaaS is not necessary to >>>> run multi PaaS in one deployment, but if you switch the PaaS, it will not >>>> change the user experience with Stratos. No need to re learn all >>>> complicated PaaS terminologies. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Lahiru Sandaruwan <lahi...@apache.org >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Udara, >>>>> >>>>> IMO following are some advantages Stratos 5.0 can have. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - If we get the user experience right, users who has used Stratos >>>>> for one particular PaaS with Stratos, will not really lock his >>>>> expertise >>>>> when they want to move to a different PaaS. Therefore it avoids the >>>>> vendor >>>>> lockin from context switching of expertise perspective. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Stratos will seamlessly integrate other services such as Kibana, >>>>> Logstash services for someone's PaaS. These services are also managed >>>>> by >>>>> Stratos, making underlying connections between them and PaaS. So he can >>>>> keep changing his choices and do experiments due to that advantage. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - In addition to above, Stratos can also provide more value >>>>> addition services if there are no other 3rd party applications >>>>> available in >>>>> a particular area. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Udara Liyanage <ud...@wso2.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Lakmal, >>>>>> >>>>>> To my understanding most Stratos users sticked to one IaaS though >>>>>> Stratos supported multiple IaaS (cloud bursting). There are very few who >>>>>> used multiple IaaS such as Ec2 and Openstack at the same time with >>>>>> Stratos. >>>>>> >>>>>> With above knowledge and Stratos acts as a wrapper for PaaS, will >>>>>> users use multiple PaaSs, in which case Stratos become handy? In other >>>>>> words, if users are using only one PaaS, say Kuberneties would Stratos be >>>>>> useful for them? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Chamila de Alwis <cham...@apache.org >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> In a way, this is a wrapper to different PaaS frameworks. However, >>>>>>> the new architecture will also unify concept-wise the different >>>>>>> approaches >>>>>>> these different PaaS frameworks have for Container cluster management. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> @Lakmal, please correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis >>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos >>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Sajith Kariyawasam <saj...@wso2.com >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With this architecture, will Stratos be a wrapper for different >>>>>>>> other PaaS frameworks? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With Jclouds we get a unified interface for multiple IaaSes, with >>>>>>>> this approach we thinking of proposing Stratos to provide a unified >>>>>>>> interface to talk to different PaaS s? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Chamil de Alwis < >>>>>>>> cham...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As Lakmal mentioned, IMO it is important to focus on a single user >>>>>>>>> experience on top of multiple PaaS frameworks. Various PaaSes have >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> own implementations and compositions of common PaaS and Container >>>>>>>>> cluster >>>>>>>>> related concepts. IMO Stratos Ignite Architecture should scope, at >>>>>>>>> least >>>>>>>>> initially, to consolidate these concepts to a single abstraction. This >>>>>>>>> should add minimum new knowledge as it could easily become a new >>>>>>>>> "PaaS" to >>>>>>>>> learn if the abstraction becomes too complex. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Go lang has proven itself to be able to handle development >>>>>>>>> processes involved with current Container related space, so I'm +1 to >>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Chamila de Alwis >>>>>>>>> Committer and PMC Member - Apache Stratos >>>>>>>>> Blog: code.chamiladealwis.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Raj Chudasama < >>>>>>>>> raj.chudas...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> this looks great! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> i hope that you all keep this open to dev community for input as >>>>>>>>>> well as share your progress. please take all your decisions through >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> appropriate Apache 2.0 guidelines. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> i can see a bright future with these changes. GO did bring many >>>>>>>>>> improvements to PCF. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Lakmal Warusawithana < >>>>>>>>>> lak...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Devs, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Couple of time community were discussed about Stratos refacing >>>>>>>>>>> to carter new technology and threads. Yesterday I have met >>>>>>>>>>> (unplanned >>>>>>>>>>> meeting) few PMC/committers (Lakmal, Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) >>>>>>>>>>> offline and discussed and came up $subject. Please share your >>>>>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>>>>> thoughts and feedback. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 4.x and previous versions are mainly focused on run >>>>>>>>>>> application on top of IaaS. To support multiple IaaSes, we used >>>>>>>>>>> apache >>>>>>>>>>> jclouds. But rise of the container technology future app dev and >>>>>>>>>>> deployment >>>>>>>>>>> will couple with containers not VM. Because of that we have >>>>>>>>>>> integrated k8s >>>>>>>>>>> support in Stratos 4.1.x release. But if we carefully looked at >>>>>>>>>>> 4.1.x and >>>>>>>>>>> new k8s releases, we are adding additional layer to k8s without any >>>>>>>>>>> benefits. Personally I don't like to duplicate engineering effort >>>>>>>>>>> if it >>>>>>>>>>> does not giving any value to community. This is the background that >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> thought of why Stratos need refacing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Stratos 5.0 - proposing name "Ignite Architecture", we though of >>>>>>>>>>> fully focus on container based application development/deployment. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We do not want to reinvent or compete with current PaaS >>>>>>>>>>> providers. We propose to change the strategy to support multi PaaS >>>>>>>>>>> instead >>>>>>>>>>> of support multiple IaaS(Stratos 4.x). In high level, Stratos will >>>>>>>>>>> provide >>>>>>>>>>> unique workflow across deferent PaaS to deploy apps. Users are not >>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>>>> tie up with PaaS vendors, they will have flexibility to use any >>>>>>>>>>> PaaS. >>>>>>>>>>> Stratos will play a role in-between PaaS and SaaS. Initially we can >>>>>>>>>>> start >>>>>>>>>>> with k8s (since we all have domain knowledge) then will add Mesos, >>>>>>>>>>> CF, ECS >>>>>>>>>>> etc support. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> User experience should be very simple. One main problem I have >>>>>>>>>>> seen in all of these PaaS, their technologies are very complicate to >>>>>>>>>>> understand average user. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is total rewrite of Stratos. We discussed to rewrite with >>>>>>>>>>> GO, main reason Stratos itself should run in-side a container. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Please share your thoughts. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> p.s: @(Imesh, Akila, Chamilad, IsuruH) please add if I missed >>>>>>>>>>> anything. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Lakmal Warusawithana >>>>>>>>>>> Vice President, Apache Stratos >>>>>>>>>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sajith Kariyawasam >>>>>>>> *Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, * >>>>>>>> *WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com <http://wso2.com>* >>>>>>>> *Mobile: 0772269575 <0772269575>* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Udara Liyanage >>>>>> Software Engineer >>>>>> WSO2, Inc.: http://wso2.com >>>>>> lean. enterprise. middleware >>>>>> >>>>>> web: http://udaraliyanage.wordpress.com >>>>>> phone: +94 71 443 6897 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lakmal Warusawithana >>>> Director - Cloud Architecture; WSO2 Inc. >>>> Mobile : +94714289692 >>>> Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Lahiru Sandaruwan >> Committer and PMC member, Apache Stratos, >> Senior Software Engineer, >> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >> phone: +94773325954 >> email: lahi...@wso2.com blog: http://lahiruwrites.blogspot.com/ >> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/pub/lahiru-sandaruwan/16/153/146 >> >> > > > -- > Imesh Gunaratne > > Senior Technical Lead, WSO2 > Committer & PMC Member, Apache Stratos > -- Lakmal Warusawithana Vice President, Apache Stratos Blog : http://lakmalsview.blogspot.com/
