This is the oddest mail I've gotten recently. In between the general crankiness (bordering on racism) he's very unhappy about some 3rd party T5 libs. Is there anything to that?
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *...* Date: Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 11:19 AM Subject: RE: I know you cant be bothered, but if you can it really would be gracious To: Howard Lewis Ship <hls...@gmail.com> Thanks for the KIND response Howard. I am sh&$%canning tynamo due to their lack of response which has transcended years of open source abuse. Which in turn leaves me to depart from tapestry 5 painfully because I like your framework and what it gives. I committed to the tynamo guys and waited and waited and I have no idea how their link is on your project page as an extension. Does anyone regard that a developer somewhere is assuming this is commercially ripe and ready to use ? Its a ditch. And I will stop there because I will get myself in trouble if i continue characterizations of what the state of the code is and how its able to function... it purely doesnt and been mismanaged for too long by the wrong egotistical developers sought for total self gain and mislead talented folks down a dead end. Its obvious they just quit. I encourage you to depart from tynamo. This type of alternative is where I will restart http://carminecarella.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/accounts-manager-a-sample-web-application-with-twitter-bootstrap-backbone-js-restful-j2ee-and-jpa/ One of my gigs years back was at Raytheon and I wrote my own mini hibernate by scratch and my own CRUD interfaces and default set of web pages. It was highly admired as a cookie cutter for 400 web apps for the patriot missile logistics management project. I regret trusting open source coders and depending on their delivery for commercial frameworks. Its a shame but this kind of feedback whereby a developer is actually canning and leaving might be a trend. Its a shame and I wish the open source was regulated by standards and disciplines that make software development possible. The handful or the few that have done something just does not impress me . Whether tapestry5 lives or dies, does not matter to me anymore. I privileged the framework by giving it my heart and trusted those few who made the difference and somehow maintain their place. If I find tapestry is useful as a complete front end maybe but for now I am bailing. Sorry to intrude. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:05:47 -0700 Subject: Re: I know you cant be bothered, but if you can it really would be gracious From: hls...@gmail.com I'm not sure how to respond. You seem to be very angry about various things. On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 5:17 AM, *...* wrote: Hi Howard, I committed to specific frameworks so one day I wold write a web site so users could do something productive some day. But I find myself sitting here 2014 sick to my stomach that I cannot even checkout tynamo. perform a clean build and model a website using the 15+ years of java Or that I cannot even post a pet ad on http://pets.oodle.com because some indian(s) have taken over the marketplace and wrapped EBAY and consumed every search criteria to be THEIR's and controlling every users attempt to do something mandating the users operate under their dictatorship without any other authority. I don't think I understand this. It doesn't look like pets.oodle.com is written in Tapestry. Yes it is annoying that some people (not necessarily Indian nationals) have found ways to game various systems on the Internet. Just as many eyes make bugs shallow, many eyes also make exploits visible. Our job is often to see deeper than others, and prevent these negative uses of the software we create. That being said, if the Taliban, or the Westboro Baptist Church, or Monsanto used Tapestry to build their site, even to say or do horrible things, that is part of the price we pay to enable so many others to create positive works. I have seen the internet taken over and being abused. I committed to tynamo since 2006 and its really gone nowhere and a toy yet it has been promoted and put on your framework as a viable option when it isnt and the two foreigners operating that turf there are done the same thing the foreigners at http://pets.oodle.com do... they abuse their role, authority, content and dictatorship and nothing is open/free or delivered. The only thing thats occurred is its controlled by a handful of idiots that got no business controlling that problem domain and they cant even deliver on their valed masquerade of who they are, what they are doing, what they promise to their users. The only authority they have is that granted to them, by consensus, by the community. As a result, nothing gets done. And all intent of this user ME is tossed into the rubbush including my credentials. Maybe I am just a waste. I have never been able to model java annotations the way I dreamed. its never happened becausze I committed to the frameworks and the authorities promoting them claiming they are the best thing since sliced bread. I do wonder why you would put tynamo on your website as a viable option when they are holding that thing down with intentional build problems preventing anyone from successfully checking it out, building clean, running and modeling a website. I have bitched and moaned over the years having come from the MIT Xwindows day when everything worked and we cold trust american engineering. I doubt the problems are intentional. We are all faced with the task of balancing our work with our open source contributions. Do you think Tapestry 5.4 would take this long if I could work on it 100% time? There has been an invasion of nasty insects that have literally ruined engineering and open source. Open source is closed source. The pundits are running the show and speak at all the conferences with impunity. The correct reaction to poor open source is to move elsewhere, or even create a competitor. I think the GitHub model is better in many ways than the Apache model, in that it is easier, even encouraged, to fork and improve (and then send a push request back). On the other hand, you see much more abandonware on GitHub than in Apache projects. I am not just some idiot that cannot write code. If it could have been done it owld already have. There are serious show stopping forces of intentional incompetence that thrive in the current release of binaries that make modeling open source software physically impossible. I wouldn't throw the word "intentional" around. I strongly doubt anyone is breaking the build, or writing bad code, just to spite you (or anyone else). Again, it comes down to time and, in some cases, talent. Not maliciousness. Why am I writing to you ? Because I see a serious problem that remains unresolved. Third world poverty is running the show and its seriously abusive. The argument ocld be made to invalidate me but in all reality my argument is valid and my claims backed by dysfunction andf failure of open source. I do not accept any of your basic premises. Why does it have to be only a handful make it thru. I am not sure the open source authority you currently own is about to try and change things either. It would be nice. To slam some of these interceptors of American technology, who abuse americans and spit in our faces with disrespect... and build them OFF the turf where they belong because they have no right to be oiperating the turf when they have intentionally failed to deliver anything. taking tynamo off your website as a supported option would be a start. Alejandro and Kalle are dirtbags. They cant release anything. They never did and years will pass and they never will release anything that can be checked out, built and run and used to model websites in any normal functional reliable expected capacity. It's not just "my" web site, Tapestry is a group effort. A discussion about whether Tynamo is viable and should be listed on the Tapestry wiki is not something to be done in private by me. Take your concerns, more respectfully, to the Tapestry developer list. as for webnsites thast make common living impossible... like http://pets.oodle.com whereby I cannot even post an ad to sella pet due to their websites MySQL errors, their lack of support or care for that matter and ignorance? There are tons of these out there. And the internet ruins because of incompetent hotshots trying to steal the turf and claim ownership. There is endless competition for even the most mundane web sites; find an alternative that works for it. Blog about it, direct traffic to it. I would like to know if open source will ever be predictably brought back under control by us again? Maybe it never was under control and never will be. I just am sick over the fact that I look at myself and see I am absolutely useless... when I could be modeling the real world in one fashion or another to make the world a better place and it has been open source that has prevented me fro doing so. Open source has not prevented you from doing anything. You have chosen certain tools (Tynamo, apparently) that don't meet your expectations. Well, I daily use any number of tools that don't meet mine. I either find new ones I like more, or I write my own. None of this is rocket science, it is just engineering discipline. It isnt that difficult. And it shouldnt have to be this difficult. But it is. And its impossible. And I see the internet becoming worse as more control is acquired by the wrong forces making everything impossible. I woudl like to revisit tapestry and tynamo to model some websites but I am discouraged. Do you have any suggestions for me to remain independent of bad influences on technology (as kalle and alejandro have been historically for years) ... about any good independxcent frameworks to use to model websites with? All I wanted was to focus on business logic. But it seems I need to write my own framework in order to do so. I did that once for raytheon... my own mini hibernate and set of crud pages. Again, I have problems with your basic premise. There is an amazing wealth of technology out there, and quite a bit that is both innovative, easy to use, well supported, and well documented. You may want to look beyond Java. You may want to rethink your ideas of how to "model websites". I'm personally excited by Clojure, ReactJS, and AngularJS. I have been in a similar situation to yours recently. I was using a Clojure database tool named Korma. It made certain things easy, but had some odd dependencies, and limited documentation, and very little developer community. Eventually I hit a brick wall ... I couldn't get it to do quite what I wanted and couldn't get any support. Fortunately, I had a good test suite, and I found a different and simpler tool, HoneySQL, and quickly shifted my code over. It was painful to backtrack, but now my code is simpler and easier to understand. No amount of angry missives would have helped. I have just about given up. If you got any new ideas about what to use to model websites with today I would appreciate that. I think you should start here, http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy, to change your thinking about the right way to build software. I think you'll find that a lot of technologies, even including Tapestry, are a bit "complected" (a term explained in the video).
