Hi Nikos I didn't make the test since the user guide states that "... After number of messages has hit this value, Kannel began to discard them..."
I don't want messages to be discarded but queued... Are they really discarded? Regards Alvaro |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Envíe y Reciba Datos y mensajes de Texto (SMS) hacia y desde cualquier celular y Nextel en el Perú, México y en mas de 180 paises. Use aplicaciones 2 vias via SMS y GPRS online Visitenos en www.perusms.NET www.smsglobal.com.mx y www.pravcom.com 2009/6/15 Nikos Balkanas <nbalka...@gmail.com>: > Hi Al, > > What's up? > > Did configuration do the trick? > > BR, > Nikos > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nikos Balkanas" <nbalka...@gmail.com> > To: "Alvaro Cornejo" <cornejo.alv...@gmail.com>; "Alan McNatty" > <a...@catalyst.net.nz> > Cc: <devel@kannel.org> > Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:52 AM > Subject: Re: Kannel not load balancing after restart and messages get stuck > inqueue > > >> Hi Al, >> >> Please see inline answers. Kannel load balances all available smscs during >> operation. The only problem is that during startup, it starts sms_router too >> soon. From the discussion, i see that a patch may not even be necessary, it >> could be a configuration issue. Else I could always update the patch to >> account for more cases. >> >> BR, >> Nikos >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alvaro Cornejo" >> <cornejo.alv...@gmail.com> >> To: "Alan McNatty" <a...@catalyst.net.nz> >> Cc: "Nikos Balkanas" <nbalka...@gmail.com>; <devel@kannel.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:56 AM >> Subject: Re: Kannel not load balancing after restart and messages get >> stuck inqueue >> >> >>> Hi Nikos >> >>> I'm still around here... I've been busy this lasts days... I wish I >>> was on vacations ;-) >> >>> Regarding this patch, -I didn't had time to test it- but seems to >>> solve the issue making kannel hold the queue assignment until all >>> smsc's are online. However I do agree with Alan in the fact that that >>> solution is not suitable since there can be many scenarios where an >>> smsc will not come online or might be delayed at kannel startup and >>> this will delay all message traffic. >> >> If one could describe me these scenarios (when bbox will startup >> succesfully, with smscs failing) I could implement them in the code. >> >>> I'll be for a solution where Kannel recalculate its queue(loadbalance) >>> for a given destination when a new destination for the given >>> route/destination is available/unavailable and not only at startup. >> >> That's what it does all of the time. The only difference, at startup, it >> starts sms_router too soon. >> >>> Another option might be to make kannel have an intermediate queue that >>> is not assigned to an smsc until the smsc queue is less than 5min on >>> the spscific smsc. This way in case of a restart, the 1st smsc to be >>> available will get a moderate queue and the rest of smsc's will >>> loadbalace the rest of messages once. >> >>> Would something like that might be possible? I fear that an approach >>> like this one will require a big remake of kannel queue/load >>> management and I doubt kannel team will go for it. >> >> I can do that. No problem. But you don't need a patch for that, you can >> use configuration. Have you tried setting in smsc group: >> >> sms-outgoing-queue-limit = 50? >> >> This will push the first 50 sms to your smsc, and then push single sms, >> until your other smscs go online. >> >>> Also I stick in the opinion that kannel shouldn't panic if it can't >>> set active/enable an smsc on startup since there can be other smscs >>> that can process messages for other routes/destinations. This issue is >>> more important since the only workarroud is to edit kannel.conf >>> comment the offending smsc and restart kannel.... and once the smsc is >>> fixed, re-edit kannel.conf and restart kannel since so far, there is >>> no way to make kannel reread the config file. >> >> We are in total agreement. I never liked this issue myself, either (both >> failing to startup and not reconfiguring on the fly). >> >>> Once I test the patch I'll let you know. Probably this weekend. >> >> Please don't. Wait for the patch update. >> >>> Regards and THANKS for your time & Support. >> >> No pro, bro. Sorry for the delay, and for your ordeal. Mexico should be >> beautiful this time of the year. >> >> Alvaro >> >> >> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> EnvΓe y Reciba Datos y mensajes de Texto (SMS) hacia y desde cualquier >> celular y Nextel >> en el PerΓΊ, MΓ©xico y en mas de 180 paises. Use aplicaciones 2 vias via >> SMS y GPRS online >> Visitenos en www.perusms.NET www.smsglobal.com.mx y >> www.pravcom.com >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Alan McNatty<a...@catalyst.net.nz> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Nikos, >>> >>> OK, yeah I'm not about failure at start-up time. If an SMSC is off-line >>> (SMPP timeout/retry during bind) kannel will start (simply config a >>> bogus IP address for SMPP to test this out). An example is lets say we >>> have 2 connections for load balancing. Now consider 1 smsc being taken >>> offline (no tcp connection) as it is upgraded, we can still send through >>> the other (this is also useful for DR - disaster recover, etc). >>> >>> So from my example above only 1 connection would be active the other in >>> bind retry loop (wait X seconds, etc) - no tcp connection is established >>> to smsc. If we re-started kannel it wouldn't be a good idea to wait for >>> both links to become active before pushing messages out - this would >>> mean waiting for the upgraded smsc to come back online, no? >>> >>> Again sorry if I'm talking at cross purposes here. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alan >>> >>> Nikos Balkanas wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> If even 1 SMSc in configuration file fails to start, bearerbox will >>>> panic. There are several states to any SMSc, like connecting, going >>>> down, etc. Bearerbox expects all SMScs to be available on startup. The >>>> operative word is "available". If a configured modem is not connected, >>>> that's a failure and you would have to take it off configuration to >>>> startup. >>>> >>>> After it starts, SMScs can go up or down. Isolated mode still needs >>>> SMScs for outgoing messages. The only mode that doesn't is Suspended. >>>> But i don't think that even this will startup without all SMScs >>>> available. >>>> >>>> Available is different than Active. Available means anything but Failed >>>> (Dead,etc.). An available SMSc could be down, or coming up or >>>> connecting. >>>> >>>> In this patch, router will wait to start until all SMScs become active. >>>> >>>> What is DR? >>>> >>>> BR, >>>> Nikos >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan McNatty" <a...@catalyst.net.nz> >>>> To: "Nikos Balkanas" <nbalka...@gmail.com> >>>> Cc: "Alvaro Cornejo" <cornejo.alv...@gmail.com>; <devel@kannel.org> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 1:22 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Kannel not load balancing after restart and messages get >>>> stuck inqueue >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Nikos, >>>>> >>>>> Sorry I haven't reviewed this whole thread in detail but was caught by >>>>> .. "bearerbox will not start unless all smscs are available." .. this >>>>> worried me a bit. >>>>> >>>>> I'm concerned that in a DR scenario if 1 connection is down (and not >>>>> coming up just yet) then I would like to be able to (re)start no >>>>> problem >>>>> (the other connections would start with this one remaining down .. >>>>> trying to bind, etc). Is there not an alternative option in terms of >>>>> (from init.d/startup perspective) start isolated, allowing some time >>>>> (seconds) for the available connections to bind then setting the >>>>> connections to active. Or have I missed the point here. >>>>> >>>>> Apologies if I'm muddying the water. I will try and follow more >>>>> closely. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Nikos Balkanas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Alvaro, >>>>>> >>>>>> I just managed to finish with my responsibilities, not on April 10, as >>>>>> I >>>>>> was hoping. Meanwhile, I haven't heard from you in a while, and I hope >>>>>> you are enjoying your vacations. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here is a patch to gw/bearerbox.c and gw/bb_smscconn.c, that doesn't >>>>>> start the sms_router, until all smscs (except the FAKE) are ACTIVE. If >>>>>> I >>>>>> am not mistaken, bearerbox will not start unless all smscs are >>>>>> available. So this is inline with this philosophy. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have tested it to the extend that it doesn't break anything, please >>>>>> let me know if it solves your problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> BR, >>>>>> Nikos >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alvaro Cornejo" >>>>>> <cornejo.alv...@gmail.com> >>>>>> To: "Nikos Balkanas" <nbalka...@gmail.com> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 4:56 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Kannel not load balancing after restart and messages get >>>>>> stuck inqueue >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Nikos >>>>>> >>>>>> No problem. I undestand we are on a "best effort support XD" and this >>>>>> is not a critical issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> Alvaro >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> EnvΞ β€ Ξ’Βe y Reciba Datos y mensajes de Texto (SMS) hacia y desde >>>>>> cualquier >>>>>> celular y Nextel >>>>>> en el PerΞ β€ Ξ οΏ½, MΞ β€ Ξ’Β©xico y en mas de 180 paises. Use >>>>>> aplicaciones 2 >>>>>> vias via >>>>>> SMS y GPRS online >>>>>> Β Β Β Β Β Β Β Visitenos en www.perusms.NET www.smsglobal.com.mx y >>>>>> www.pravcom.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2009/3/31 Nikos Balkanas <nbalka...@gmail.com>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Alvaro, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanx for reminding me. Unfortunately I am still working very hard >>>>>>> on my >>>>>>> project. I will be finished by the 10th of April. Sorry about that >>>>>>> and I >>>>>>> hope I am not causing you trouble. I put a reminder on my PC not to >>>>>>> forget. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BR, >>>>>>> Nikos >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alvaro Cornejo" >>>>>>> <cornejo.alv...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> To: "Nikos Balkanas" <nbalka...@gmail.com>; "kannel users" >>>>>>> <us...@kannel.org> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:17 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kannel not load balancing after restart and messages get >>>>>>> stuck >>>>>>> inqueue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Nikos >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Had you chance to review this? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Alvaro >>>>>>> >>>>>>> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> EnvΠ�β€�Π’ΒΒe y Reciba Datos y mensajes de Texto (SMS) >>>>>>> hacia y desde >>>>>>> cualquier >>>>>>> celular y Nextel >>>>>>> en el PerΠ�β€�Π�οΠ½, M��©xico y en >>>>>>> mas de 180 paises. Use >>>>>>> aplicaciones 2 >>>>>>> vias via >>>>>>> SMS y GPRS online >>>>>>> Π’ Π’ Π’ Π’ Π’ Π’ Visitenos en www.perusms.NET >>>>>>> www.smsglobal.com.mx y >>>>>>> www.pravcom.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2009/3/10 Nikos Balkanas <nbalka...@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am working on something very important right now. Could you give >>>>>>>> me a >>>>>>>> ping >>>>>>>> in 2 weeks or so, if no one has addressed it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanx, >>>>>>>> Nikos >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alvaro Cornejo" >>>>>>>> <cornejo.alv...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> To: "Nikos Balkanas" <nbalka...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> Cc: "seikath" <seik...@gmail.com>; "kannel users" <us...@kannel.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:29 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kannel not load balancing after restart and messages >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> stuck >>>>>>>> inqueue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Nikos >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> for 1... still looking at data/logs... nothing so far. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> for 2... You are right: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> SMSC connections: >>>>>>>> id1 �’ �’ AT2[id1] (online 323s, rcvd 48, sent >>>>>>>> 48, failed 0, >>>>>>>> queued 265 >>>>>>>> msgs) >>>>>>>> id2 �’ �’ AT2[id2] (online 314s, rcvd 0, sent >>>>>>>> 0, failed 0, >>>>>>>> queued 0 >>>>>>>> msgs) >>>>>>>> id3 �’ �’ AT2[id3] (online 314s, rcvd 0, sent >>>>>>>> 0, failed 0, >>>>>>>> queued 0 >>>>>>>> msgs) >>>>>>>> id4 �’ �’ AT2[id4] (online 314s, rcvd 0, sent >>>>>>>> 0, failed 0, >>>>>>>> queued 0 >>>>>>>> msgs) >>>>>>>> id5 �’ �’ AT2[id5] (online 314s, rcvd 0, sent >>>>>>>> 0, failed 0, >>>>>>>> queued 0 >>>>>>>> msgs) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All messages in queue for smsc-id "id_op1" were asigned to the 1st >>>>>>>> available smsc that has allowed-smsc=id_op1 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not developer but think this behavior shall be modified so >>>>>>>> kannel >>>>>>>> will be able to maximize/optimize its resources available. Some sort >>>>>>>> of "recalculation of �’ the better route" for messages >>>>>>>> each x time >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Alvaro >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> EnvΠ�οнв↬οΠ½Π�’ВΒΒe y Reciba >>>>>>>> Datos y mensajes de Texto (SMS) >>>>>>>> hacia y desde >>>>>>>> cualquier >>>>>>>> celular y Nextel >>>>>>>> en el PerΠ�οнв↬οΠ½Π�οΠ½ , MΞ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½Ξ >>>>>>>> ²β†¬οΠ½Π�’В©xico y en mas >>>>>>>> de 180 paises. Use >>>>>>>> aplicaciones 2 vias >>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> SMS y GPRS online >>>>>>>> �’ �’ �’ �’ Ξ >>>>>>>> �’ �’ Visitenos en www.perusms.NET >>>>>>>> www.smsglobal.com.mx y >>>>>>>> www.pravcom.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Nikos Balkanas >>>>>>>> <nbalka...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> These are some heavy questions dude. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (1) SMS shoudn't get stuck like that so that they require restart. >>>>>>>>> Anything >>>>>>>>> in the logs? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (2) I could speculate why this happens, but without looking at the >>>>>>>>> source >>>>>>>>> code it would be guesswork. My guess would be that it involves the >>>>>>>>> timing >>>>>>>>> needed at startup to designate SMScs as active. Probably this is >>>>>>>>> done by >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>> of configuration order (i.e. id1, id2, etc.). The first active one >>>>>>>>> gets >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> queue. Bearerbox router checks in every 30". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> BR, >>>>>>>>> Nikos >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alvaro Cornejo" >>>>>>>>> <cornejo.alv...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> To: "seikath" <seik...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Cc: "kannel users" <us...@kannel.org> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:41 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kannel not load balancing after restart and messages >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> stuck >>>>>>>>> inqueue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No, I'm using mysql for dlr storage since otherwise dlr are lost on >>>>>>>>> kannel restart >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> EnvΞ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½ �’В½e y Reciba Datos y mensajes de >>>>>>>>> Texto (SMS) hacia >>>>>>>>> y desde >>>>>>>>> cualquier >>>>>>>>> celular y Nextel >>>>>>>>> en el PerΞ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½ Π’ , MΞ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½ Ξ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½Ξ Β²Ξ²β€ >>>>>>>>> ¬Β°xico y en mas de 180 >>>>>>>>> paises. Use >>>>>>>>> aplicaciones 2 vias >>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>> SMS y GPRS online >>>>>>>>> Π�οнв↬↢ Π�οнв↬↢ Ξ >>>>>>>>> �οнв↬↢ Π�οнв↬↢ >>>>>>>>> Π�οнв↬↢ Π�οнв↬↢ >>>>>>>>> Visitenos en www.perusms.NET >>>>>>>>> www.smsglobal.com.mx y >>>>>>>>> www.pravcom.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 8:15 PM, seikath <seik...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am not aware of the store_tools. >>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I assume you use default kannel store file >>>>>>>>>> instead of db dlr storage, correct ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Alvaro Cornejo wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi List >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've found the following 2 isues: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 1) I have several modems for the same operators 10 for op1 and 5 >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> op2. For some reason, some messages get stuck into kannel queue >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> are not sent to smsc without restarting kannel. I've used Alex >>>>>>>>>>> store_tools and verify messages are in queue. All messages are >>>>>>>>>>> sent >>>>>>>>>>> using the same code and use AT-SMSCs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) When I restart kannel QUEUED messages are sent through only >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> at-smsc even if messages have a destination smsc-id specified in >>>>>>>>>>> sendsms url call >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is an snippet of the config I have: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> smsc-id = id1 >>>>>>>>>>> allowed-smsc = id1,id_op1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> smsc-id = id2 >>>>>>>>>>> allowed-smsc = id2,id_op1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> smsc-id = id3 >>>>>>>>>>> allowed-smsc = id3,id_op1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> smsc-id = id4 >>>>>>>>>>> allowed-smsc = id4,id_op2 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> smsc-id = id5 >>>>>>>>>>> allowed-smsc = id5,id_op2 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> etc... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Note there is no smsc defined with smsc-id=id_op1 nor id_op2 in >>>>>>>>>>> config >>>>>>>>>>> file. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When sending the messages I use &smsc-id=id_op1 or id_op2 into >>>>>>>>>>> url so >>>>>>>>>>> kannel load-balance through the smsc of corresponding operator >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> send the message. This works fine until I restart kannel. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> After kannel reset, All QUEUED messages are sent through ONLY >>>>>>>>>>> ONE of >>>>>>>>>>> the smsc without load-balancing between smsc even though there >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> hundreds of queued messages; however if, at the same time, I send >>>>>>>>>>> messages to any of the id_op1 or id_op2, this new messages are >>>>>>>>>>> correctly load-balanced between smsc-at >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I use: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kannel bearerbox version `1.4.3'. Build `Feb 13 2009 17:32:59', >>>>>>>>>>> compiler `4.1.2 20070626 (Red Hat 4.1.2-13)'. System Linux, >>>>>>>>>>> release >>>>>>>>>>> 2.6.20-1.2962.fc6, version #1 SMP Tue Jun 19 19:27:14 EDT 2007, >>>>>>>>>>> machine i686. IP 10.10.5.2. Libxml version 2.6.29. Using OpenSSL >>>>>>>>>>> 0.9.8b 04 May 2006. Compiled with MySQL 5.0.27, using MySQL >>>>>>>>>>> 5.0.27. >>>>>>>>>>> Using native malloc. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Alvaro >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> EnvΞ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½ �’В½e y Reciba Datos y mensajes >>>>>>>>>>> de Texto (SMS) >>>>>>>>>>> hacia y desde >>>>>>>>>>> cualquier >>>>>>>>>>> celular y Nextel >>>>>>>>>>> en el PerΞ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½ Π’ , MΞ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½ Ξ οΏ½ΞΏΞ Β½Ξ Β²Ξ²β€ >>>>>>>>>>> ¬Β°xico y en mas de 180 >>>>>>>>>>> paises. Use >>>>>>>>>>> aplicaciones 2 vias >>>>>>>>>>> via >>>>>>>>>>> SMS y GPRS online >>>>>>>>>>> Visitenos en www.perusms.NET www.smsglobal.com.mx y >>>>>>>>>>> www.pravcom.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Alan McNatty, Wellington, New Zealand >>>>> Catalyst IT Limited <http://www.catalyst.net.nz/> >>>>> DDI: +64 4 8032201 >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alan McNatty, Wellington, New Zealand >>> Catalyst IT Limited <http://www.catalyst.net.nz/> >>> DDI: +64 4 8032201 >>> >> > >