On 4/15/22 04:01, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
On 14.4.2022 23:25, Nikolay Nikolov wrote:
On 4/15/22 01:53, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
On 14.4.2022 22:24, Nikolay Nikolov wrote:
On 4/14/22 23:49, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
On 14.4.2022 18:20, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Robbie Harwood <rharw...@redhat.com> said:
Given there is consensus that legacy BIOS is on its way out
I don't think this statement is true, unless Fedora doesn't want
to be
considered for a bunch of popular VM hosts (e.g. Linode and such)
that
have no stated plans to support UEFI.
Maybe "legacy BIOS on physical hardware" is on its way out
It's not an maybe, it is on it's way out either physically or
simply via firmware update [1]
"In the bios, upgraded to 810 the option to enable legacy boot is
greyed out"
So how do people propose the situation to be handled when firmware
from vendors, disables the legacy boot option via firmware update.
Is Fedora supposed to block/blacklist those firmware updates via
some plugin in lvfs based on user feedback when their legacy boot
mode suddenly stops working or is it expected that upstream lvfs
team looks into this or what?
Fedora doesn't install these updates. Users install these updates,
when they have a problem
In the past they did, today users ( including the novice ones )
update it as Gnome notifies them about available update just like
they do when they receive anyother software update notification.
Really? I didn't know that. At least on my computers, Gnome has never
notified me about a BIOS update from my motherboard vendor. Besides,
it's proprietary software, so I wouldn't expect Fedora to be offering
it by default. Doesn't it need adding an extra software repository?
It's fwup/lvfs [1] and nope you dont need to jump through any
additional hoops for that, it just work ( or it does not if the vendor
is not part of lfvs ).
Oh, wow! Yeah, my new desktop has an ASRock motherboard and my laptop is
an HP and, and while both vendors (HP and Asus) participate in lvfs,
they don't seem to upload a lot of firmware updates (HP has uploaded 34
firmware files, for comparison Dell has uploaded 2033 firmware files).
But I'm still surprised that Fedora by default downloads and updates
proprietary firmware, downloaded from the Internet. Btw, does this work
in legacy boot mode as well? If I recall correctly, someone in the 2020
thread mentioned that fwupd requires boot in UEFI mode, but I don't
remember the exact details.
And besides, non-UEFI systems don't normally receive BIOS updates
that break legacy boot, because legacy boot is the only boot option
available, so what is your point, exactly?
Obviously this was for dual bios mode ( legacy and uefi ) (
otherwise the option to disable it would not be there ) in which the
vendor himself seemingly decided to disable the legacy part of the
bios via firmware update which highlight the fact that we somehow
need to deal with that situation if we want to continue to support
the legacy bios option.
How I have no clue, which is why I pointed at an potential lvfs
plugin or the lvfs team.
I think we should check the BIOS date in the installer and deprecate
(as in, print warnings to the user in the installer) legacy boot on
newer systems (e.g. newer than 2017 or some other cutoff date, when
we decide that UEFI becomes more stable), an by deprecate, I mean,
show warnings to the user and suggest that they continue on their own
risk. Of course, we should also check for virtual machines, like e.g.
QEMU/SeaBIOS, that are known to be stable in legacy BIOS mode and not
show the warning in them, even if the BIOS date is new (although
SeaBIOS seems to use an old date - 06/23/99).
That's something that needs to be worked out with the Anaconda team
but I think Javier already provide the best path forward with regards
to Anaconda when I started the dialog two years ago but for whatever
reason that's not part of Robbie's proposal.
What was Javier's proposal?
Best regards,
Nikolay
JBG
1. https://fwupd.org/
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