On Sunday, February 28, 2016 11:00:34 AM AMT Klaas Freitag wrote: > On 27.02.2016 15:49, Lukas Reschke wrote: > > This is super dangerous stuff from Debian and I*HIGHLY* would advise > > anybody from NOT using distribution packages for ownCloud. > > > > Highly irresponsible from them to risk user data like that. Honestly, the > > maintainer should know better. > > Sorry, but this is over the top. Of course debians way of patching this > is wrong, but have you ever thought about why they do it? > > It is completely naive to think that users (using distro packages or > not) will always follow the upgrade path ownClouds core devs think is > good. ownCloud isn't the center of the world for everybody. > > One could easily argue that ownCloud is badly architected if it is not > able to detect which version it is updating from and to which it updates > to. From that information it could be able to build a list of actions to > perform. Other systems manage to do that.
Yeah, I don't think anybody would argue with that - it WOULD be nice. Like everything, it is a matter of priority - making it possible for ownCloud to skip updates simply would have meant to skip some feature work or some other refactoring. And nobody stepped up to do it voluntarily. Note that it is the same with the other requirements of Debian, like being able to split up ownCloud with config files in /etc, being able to use external dependencies instead of shipping them etc. It takes work to make that possible. We're an open source project: if nobody wants to do that work or pay for it, it won't happen. Turns out that making ownCloud fit the Debian (and Fedora and other distro's) policies wasn't a high priority. That sucks as it would be nice to have, but it would be even nicer to have incremental file sync, a side bar, new sharing code and 1000 other things - such is life. It is sad that they take it so personal and I'll try to explain this in a friendly way somehow - I get that it is irritating that we don't do much to help them, even perhaps seem to make life hard, then come yelling at them when they do something we don't like. I really get that. But, while they seem certain they can make upgrading ownCloud while skipping releases work (and they have to as per Debian policy) we are certain it will harm users - and we care a HUGE amount about that. So it is as it is. > If that is too hard with the > underlying technology we are using that is a different thing, but in > means a reason for this bashing comments. That is not helping anybody. That I agree with. The Debian maintainers are between a rock and a hard place, they love ownCloud and want it in Debian but have to follow Debian policy. And we're not helping them. I get that they're unhappy. But the technical reality is that what they want is dangerous and ownCloud can't do what Debian demands - and while it would be NICE to be able to do that, it isn't our nr 1 priority. Like ownCloud isn't the only thing on Debian, Debian isn't the only thing on OUR priority list. > We should spend our energy to improve things rather than pointing to > each other. In FOSS we're all in the same boat. We're both Free Software projects and share a lot of goals in that regard - but we DO something different, that is how it is. I will try to send an email, hopefully explaining this - if that fails, well, I doubt Debian will change the rules for ownCloud and as we don't believe ownCloud can do what Debian needs at this moment, I don't see any other way than Debian stopping the distribution of ownCloud. Until somebody (or some people) help make ownCloud capable of what Debian needs, it is not feasible to continue the way it is. Thanks for the wise words, Klaas. /J > regards, > Klaas > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel >
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