On Mon, Dec 09, 2002 at 09:54:58PM -0500, The FLOG Index wrote: > I know freenet was designed to use transport methods other then tcp/ip > but I'm not aware of anything existing at this time. I would like to > get > your comments on this idea I had of augmenting the existing freenet > transport method with sneakernet. For those who are not familiar with > sneakernet, it is the networking method that existed before the > internet > was big - you actualy take physical media around with you and hand it > from person to person. Also CPIP :). Seriously, we will add support for protocols other than TCP after version 1.0. If you want to experiment with them before that, by all means go ahead, we'll give you a CVS branch.
The main problem with sneakernet is it's enormous latency. I would suggest that sneakernet is better suited to bulk prefetch than a pseudo-end-to-end protocol like Freenet is (NASA came to the same conclusion when architecting the interplanetary internet - TCP is not suitable if latencies are in the tens of minutes, you want an offline bulk transfer protocol). So what you want is a client that lets you browse a cached part of freenet, and build a query list. Then when you go to the node with a connection to the real freenet, you have it try to fetch all the keys you have flagged that you want, and those that it does find, you return to the broken-off freenet. There is probably offline-browser type software that does this for the WWW, you could probably adapt something for freenet. It cannot participate in routing however, because latency of minutes per hop is not reasonable, and IRL it would probably be a lot more than minutes per hop on average. With respect to running freenet in hostile environments, that is a post-2.0 thing IMHO, but potentially interesting (potentially impossible too, but "experts" have told me that about freenet :)). We would need to find a way to implement a freenet-like network that could function with only being able to use trusted links, and we would use steganography to hide those links over the public internet, or we could use covert physical links. > > Allowing freenet to use sneakernet would be wonderfull for a variety > of > reasons.... The act of allowing freenet nodes to communicate with each > other off the internet is highly deseriable. At this time, assuming > freenet encryption could be broken and trafic analysis became > possible, > freenet activity could be tracked and people could be located. > Analysis > of sneakernet would be impossible unless people were stoped with the > media. Of course that is a paranoid example, but freenet is a paranoid > system ;) > > Sneakernet offers other advantages also related to communication off > the > internet. Sneakernet currently has a bandwith cap well beyond anything > possible on the internet. It might also be possible to run a freenet > node with out any connection to the internet at all - this would make > freenet extremly stealthy. > > Sneakernet raises it's own concerns that would have to be addressed > and > currently I am not sure on all of them. Mainly, how to protect the > person carrying the physical media. Encryption is obviously needed but > I > am not sure of exactly how to implement it. Am I correct in assuming > that each key in the datastore requires a public key to decrypt and > that > public key is not available in the data store? Does that mean that the > standard datastore keys would be protected enough to burn dirrectly > onto > cd and import elsewhere? > > Aside from these issues which I hope we can work out I have thought up > the following sample implementation of sneaker net (which is of course > also up to comment and improvement). Sneakernet could be implemented > by > burning keys onto cdrom, in this case mini-cdr would be a good choice. > They hold up to 180 megs and they are quite small. If your not > familiar > wity mini-cd open up your cdrom and check that dip in the middle, that > is how big they are. The small size is great because it could be used > in > a "crack pass" fashion of clandistine trading and it holds a good deal > of information. > > The issue of finding people to trade can be dealt with simply as well. > Assuming that the fact that you are running a freenet node is not > hidden > each person willing to participate in sneakernet simply wears an easy > to > spot article of clothing or sticker. Say a freenet hat or a freenet > pin > or shirt, anything easily identifiable. When you notice someone else > who is participating in sneakernet just trade mini-cds with them, go > home, insert it into your machine, and tell fred to import it. > Hopefully > the same kind of interface could be adopted for the reverse - a 2 or 3 > click interface to burning a new sneakernet cd. > > Using cdroms in this fashion has another great benefit - automatic > garbage collection. Over time, the cdrom would get scratched and > otherwise degrade from (mis)use. People would probably also throw them > out, play frisbee with them and have a general lack of respect for it > considering it is free and all =) > > What do you think of my concept? Please provide feedback positive or > negative, I am interested in hearing it =) > > -- FLOG > > -- Matthew Toseland toad at amphibian.dyndns.org amphibian at users.sourceforge.net Freenet/Coldstore open source hacker. Employed full time by Freenet Project Inc. from 11/9/02 to 11/1/03 http://freenetproject.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20021210/89792e72/attachment.pgp>
