I take your point that, even though (I'm fairly sure that) Matthew knows I'm not being rude, this may not be apparent to others. I'll try to avoid that in future.
Ian. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Evan Daniel <evanbd at gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 7:59 AM, Ian Clarke <ian at locut.us> wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Evan Daniel <evanbd at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Ian: Your email makes it sound like you think toad is actively trying >>> to discourage participation. >> >> Obviously I don't think that he is trying to discourage participation >> explicitly, however there are a number of issues where Toad is on the side >> of the argument which makes participation more difficult, such as the >> current situation where nobody but Toad can conveniently update the website. >> And obviously he doesn't believe these things because he is acting in bad >> faith, he just places a lower priority on ease of participation than I do >> relative to other concerns. >> As for discussion list culture, there is nothing wrong with debates where >> there is genuine disagreement, and the only "name-calling" I recall is >> calling Matthew "Toad", and he doesn't seem to mind this. >> I may be more concise in my discussions with Toad because he and I have >> worked together for long enough that we can dispense with the niceties. >> ?You'll notice that I'm a lot nicer to new people. > > The point I'm trying to make is that it's about impressions. ?People > get impressions from watching interactions that don't involve them, > and then make assumptions and generalizations that may or may not be > valid. ?If we want to encourage participation, I think we need to look > at more than just how open our bug tracker is. ?I think we also need > to pay attention to how others will view the discussions we hold in > public forums like this list. ?I think your wife not wanting to get > involved in this mailing list is an excellent example. ?Yes, I notice > that you (and everyone else) are nicer to the newbies; but that's not > all the new people see. > > Communicating well by email is hard. ?People read subtexts that > weren't intended. ?I make no claim to being any better at it than > others, and I say things that get misinterpreted as often as anyone > else. ?I was in no way trying to single you out. ?I just think that we > could do better, and that very *very* few people are capable of > recognizing it when they're involved. ?The only way to improve the > discussion atmosphere that I know of is to explicitly take notice of > problems and potential problems. ?I certainly think others should > mention it to me when I make mistakes. > > I think this is a problem that those of us on this list need to work > on together. ?I can't solve it on my own, and am not interested in > trying. ?So, if I'm alone in this view, I'll just stop. ?I'm not > trying to be snarky or passive-aggressive when I say this, but I don't > know how to say it in such a way it can't be read that way: if you > think this isn't a problem at all, then tell me so and I won't mention > it again. ?If you think it's something of a problem, but different > than I think it is, or that I'm going about it in the wrong way, then > please say that. ?If you agree completely with me ;) let me know. > But, if everyone thinks I'm wrong and the only thing I'm accomplishing > is wasting time and annoying people, I'd like to hear that too, so I > can stop. > > Evan Daniel > _______________________________________________ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://osprey.vm.bytemark.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > -- Ian Clarke CEO, SenseArray Email: ian at sensearray.com Ph: +1 512 422 3588
