Child. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:16 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote:
> i'm sure "truth social" would be acceptable. maybe "oan" too... > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 11:35 PM > *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list > > So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed to > cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I > allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change > your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to > bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of > closed minded. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: > >> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not >> been paying attention? >> >> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart >> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled. >> >> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll >> need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be >>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and >>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American >>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay >>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which >>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this >>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake >>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual >>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as >>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a >>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin >>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to >>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the >>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to >>> use it to mobilize a range of passions." >>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything >>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. >>>> >>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when >>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're >>>> talking about a far-left ideology. >>>> >>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological >>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone >>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. >>>> >>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a >>>> bubble. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using >>>>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may >>>>> enlighten you: >>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I >>>>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the >>>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of >>>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that >>>>> Western >>>>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the >>>>> basis of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western >>>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The >>>>> conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being >>>>> responsible for modern progressive >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_politics> movements, identity >>>>> politics <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics>, and >>>>> political >>>>> correctness <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness>, >>>>> claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion> of Western society via a >>>>> planned culture war <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war> that >>>>> undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism> and >>>>> seeks to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s." >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if >>>>>> you don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government >>>>>> or private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals. >>>>>> >>>>>> Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do >>>>>> with fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of >>>>>> corruption, far more dangerous. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if it >>>>>> would help. Do you live in an English-speaking country? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of >>>>>>> corporations and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not >>>>>>> allowed >>>>>>> to be spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and >>>>>>> shareholders >>>>>>> "know what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a >>>>>>> "postmodern neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political >>>>>>> buzzwords being thrown around to label, demean and dismiss any >>>>>>> opposition >>>>>>> to the corporate takeover of speech and thought. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - >>>>>>>> in the US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative >>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is an excellent book >>>>>>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B> >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you >>>>>>>> think! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I take woke to mean definition 1. >>>>>>>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke >>>>>>>>> what is so wrong with that? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as >>>>>>>>> part of a small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young >>>>>>>>> age. >>>>>>>>> Even as a child I instantly recognized it as evil. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or >>>>>>>>> conservatives. I think they each bring a critical perspective. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the >>>>>>>>> greatest threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has >>>>>>>>> already done >>>>>>>>> incredible damage. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote >>>>>>>>> me on that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for your support on the name change :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh <cactus...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet >>>>>>>>>> classic" is perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> classic version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything >>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>> that. And I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but >>>>>>>>>> personally as a member of "the next generation" that Ian is >>>>>>>>>> concerned about >>>>>>>>>> I was disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown >>>>>>>>>> around. >>>>>>>>>> The next generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around >>>>>>>>>> accusations >>>>>>>>>> of "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold >>>>>>>>>> in high >>>>>>>>>> regards. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it >>>>>>>>>>> funny. I'm not seeking your approval. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ian, >>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find >>>>>>>>>>>> it funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted to >>>>>>>>>>>> state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it >>>>>>>>>>>> at that. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke <i...@freenet.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, >>>>>>>>>>>> particularly one who brought racism into the conversation in the >>>>>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>>>> place. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you >>>>>>>>>>>> don't like it, I suggest you touch grass. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < >>>>>>>>>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke >>>>>>>>>>>>> or not, it wasn't funny. >>>>>>>>>>>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish >>>>>>>>>>>>> to get involved in the freenet dispute. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Russell Glenn <rusgl...@swismail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mr. Ian Clarke, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, >>>>>>>>>>>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral >>>>>>>>>>>>> decision >>>>>>>>>>>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted >>>>>>>>>>>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were >>>>>>>>>>>>> taken anyway. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours >>>>>>>>>>>>> did >>>>>>>>>>>>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of >>>>>>>>>>>>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Proof: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that >>>>>>>>>>>>> racism >>>>>>>>>>>>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and >>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>> NEVER be. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Millions of people died due to racism. >>>>>>>>>>>>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke >>>>>>>>>>>>> about that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobody is. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults >>>>>>>>>>>>> you have >>>>>>>>>>>>> produced on this list in the previous days. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who >>>>>>>>>>>>> request >>>>>>>>>>>>> you to: >>>>>>>>>>>>> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and >>>>>>>>>>>>> * leave its board and >>>>>>>>>>>>> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer >>>>>>>>>>>>> team and >>>>>>>>>>>>> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and >>>>>>>>>>>>> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into >>>>>>>>>>>>> positions >>>>>>>>>>>>> where power is wielded. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is >>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>> constructed of active members of the community, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and not of those who have been inactive for decades as Mr. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Daigniere >>>>>>>>>>>>> stated, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I join those who request leadership is transferred to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> leading developer. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Should he not accept the position, I would vouch for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> previous lead >>>>>>>>>>>>> developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the choice of the two. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads this email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> state >>>>>>>>>>>>> their support. We must stand united against racism. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Russell Glenn >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ian Clarke >>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> Ian Clarke >> Founder, The Freenet Project >> Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org> >> > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org <i...@freenetproject.org>
