On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 6:23 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < [email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:32 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I don't get it. I thought the usability problem was that it's not > > > straightforward > > > to *change* the logo. How is the proposed solution helping the user > > change > > > the logo when the color theme he selected specifies a logo? The user > > still > > > needs to go to the color theme to change the logo. Or to the skin, or > to > > > the page preferences, etc. The user still needs to know where all these > > > places where the logo can be defined are and check each of them to make > > > sure the logo he sets is not overwritten. > > > > > > > It doesn't fix the solution entirely, but allows the user to set his logo > > as the default logo. We should try to remove the overwrites from the > skin / > > color themes and fallback on the default logo. Overwriting the logo from > > skin/color theme/space will still be possible, but this should be used > only > > in advanced use cases. > > > > Currently we are providing too many XWiki logos in the custom Color > Themes > > (for example in the case of dark colors) and we duplicate the logo in all > > these places, forcing the user to know the priority order. > > Currently there is no UI to change the default logo. You can only change > it > > from the file system. > > From the Administration, the user instead of changing the Skin logo, go > to > > the CT. This could also be improved by: (A) making sure the Skin logo is > as > > easy to change as the one from CT, (B) maybe change the order of > displayed > > configurations from (Default Logo, CT, Icon Themes, Skin) to (Default > Logo, > > Skin, CT, Icon Themes) - this order would better present the priority > > order, but it would put on a lower place the CT change, which is quite > > often and popular. > > > > --- > > So for this proposal we had Thomas, Alex, Guillaume, Vincent, me agreed. > > Marius, let me know if you have other questions / suggestions. > > > > My worry is that if we don't remove the logo from the default color themes > then the users will complain that "they set the logo from the > Administration and it doesn't have any effect". Another solution is to show > what is the current logo in this new section and indicate where it comes > from (e.g. from color theme). > The default logo will come from file system or the base skin or the new page Vincent proposed. It will not be the current logo, but the default logo. I don't think we can remove the logo from the color themes. It is powerful when you want to provide user/space/wiki diversity. But those cases are advanced, so whomever is having such an advanced setup might need to know what they are doing. The "show where is coming from" idea is interesting. Instead of "default logo" we could display the "current logo" with a "Customize" button near it, and depending where this logo comes from, to take the user to that logo attachment selector modal, either in the skin or color theme, space, wiki, etc. Not sure how hard it is to implement and if that behavior won't be again confusing, without explaining our inheritance/priority logo selection mechanism. Thanks, Caty > > > > > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and > > algorithm > > > > for selecting which logo to use: > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/ > > > IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1 > > > > > > > > Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages > > support > > > > (i.e. inherit WebPreferences). > > > > Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide > > > > default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere > > in > > > > the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on > the > > > > main wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS). > > > > > > > > Let us know what you think. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > -Vincent > > > > > > > > > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol < > [email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Caty, > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Hi, > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > [email protected]> > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hi Caty, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be > > > > >> overridden > > > > >>>>>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page > > > > level”. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Several questions: > > > > >>>>>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do > that? > > > > >> Using a > > > > >>>>>> custom skin? Using a color theme? > > > > >>>>>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the > > > logo, > > > > >>>> which > > > > >>>>>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, > > in > > > > >> skins > > > > >>>> & > > > > >>>>>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much? > > > > >>>>>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin > UI, > > > > i.e. > > > > >>>>>> where is it materialized? > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a > development > > > > point > > > > >>>> of > > > > >>>>> view. > > > > >>>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo > > using > > > > >> this > > > > >>>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo > and > > > the > > > > >> skin > > > > >>>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This > way > > > the > > > > >>>> Color > > > > >>>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many > ways > > > in > > > > >>>> XWiki > > > > >>>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it > were a > > > > vote) > > > > >>>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other > ways > > of > > > > >>>> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the > > existing > > > > >> ones, > > > > >>>> making the situation even more complex… > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> So for me we need to: > > > > >>>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and > > explain > > > > >> what > > > > >>>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the > > user > > > > >> would > > > > >>>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or > > not > > > > >> either? > > > > >>>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new > > Admin > > > > UI. > > > > >>>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page > > and > > > > >> attach > > > > >>>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color > Theme > > > and > > > > >> adds > > > > >>>> a logo to it? Does it do something else? > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin > OR > > > add > > > > an > > > > >>> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy > > > technically > > > > - > > > > >> I > > > > >>> guess the DefaultSkin attachment). > > > > >>> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can > be > > > > >>> inherited / overridden by the Color Themes. > > > > >> > > > > >> See my previous reply about this. > > > > >> > > > > >> So I now understand that your idea would be: > > > > >> > > > > >> Default system logo (Admin UI) > > > > >> |_ Skin logo (Skin) > > > > >> |_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki > > > > >> |_ Space Skin logo (Skin) > > > > >> |_ Space Color Theme logo > > > > >> > > > > >> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT > has a > > > > logo > > > > >> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin > > > defined > > > > and > > > > >> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki > > has a > > > > >> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, > if > > > the > > > > >> current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it, > > > > otherwise, > > > > >> if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a > > default > > > > >> xwiki logo. > > > > >> > > > > >> However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin. > > > > What’s > > > > >> the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide? > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Well the use case is that I want to experiment with the colors and > > see > > > > > which one I like as the default colors. Also maybe I want to have > > > > different > > > > > Color Themes on some wikis / spaces. > > > > > If the logos are inherited it's fine, I am not forced to attach the > > > logo > > > > > for every other ColorTheme available. I just the default logo once. > > > > Again, > > > > > nice if I want to change the logo, I just change it in one place, > not > > > in > > > > > every other color theme that exists out there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please > > add > > > > new > > > > >> use cases if you see some that I have missed. > > > > >> > > > > >> Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested > > > pages. > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks > > > > >> -Vincent > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as > "What > > > > does > > > > >> it > > > > >>>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom > > > skin? > > > > >>>> Using a color theme?" > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different > > > > Skin/CT > > > > >>> with a different logo for that level. If you think that is > > confusing, > > > > we > > > > >>> can rephrase it. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thanks, > > > > >>> Caty > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Thanks > > > > >>>> -Vincent > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> Thanks, > > > > >>>>> Caty > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Thanks > > > > >>>>>> -Vincent > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) < > > > > >> [email protected]> > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Hi, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of > > > usability > > > > >>>> tests > > > > >>>>>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] > > > some > > > > >>>> issues > > > > >>>>>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated > Logo > > > > >> section > > > > >>>> in > > > > >>>>>>> Administration". > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still > > > > struggle > > > > >>>> to > > > > >>>>>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus > > > there > > > > >> is > > > > >>>> a > > > > >>>>>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside > the > > > > >> Themes > > > > >>>>>>> section of Administration > > > > >>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/ > > > > >>>>>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1 > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Let me know what you think, > > > > >>>>>>> Caty > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> [1] > > > > >>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/ > > > > >>>>>> Tasks5/Prioritization/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
