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Seems to be 200 USD per month? oXygen XML Web Author uses a subscription floating license model with a minimum commitment period of 12 months. On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Jason Pickering < jason.p.picker...@gmail.com> wrote: > I found what looks like a too-good-to-be-true WebApp version of Oxygen > from the Google Play Store, which offers integration with GitHub. It seems > to work. Might offer a new editor to replace my beloved deprecated Serna. > You can try it out by adding oXygen XML WebApp extension to Chrome. Seems > pretty sweet, but not sure if this is just a demo or something which is > actually fully functional and free? > > Regards, > Jason > > > > On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolli...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> http://docbkx-tools.sourceforge.net/docbkx-samples/manual.html seems >> to suggest 5.0 is now supported. >> >> One of the features i have seen touted in 5.1 which is also part of >> DITA (and no doubt Flare) is support for "topics". I guess the idea >> here, to use the elearning jargon, is to be able to make reusabale >> learning objects which can be differently combined in scorm modules >> and the like. >> >> I do agree that at the moment the priority really should be more and >> improved content. While we have that content in docbook xxx xml we >> know that it is not going to be lost and can be shimmied into whatever >> the toolchain of the future might be. In fact i am regretting getting >> involved in this thread at all, but I am glad you got rid of the Serna >> free comments :-) Back to work. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 8 April 2016 at 04:13, Jason Pickering <jason.p.picker...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > Hi Bob, >> > >> > Again, I think the fact that docbook has moved on is to us, not so >> > important. We are using a very small subset of what docbook offers, and >> > there are no real differences between 4.4 and 5.0 for our purposes, at >> least >> > which I have seen. One issue which we should investigate more is the >> > supposed improved indexing in 5.0, which I have not been able to get to >> > work. >> > >> > The major issue with upgrading the dependency from 4.4 to 4.5 of docbook >> > seems to be the lack of a publicly available maven artifact for either >> 4.4 >> > or 5.0. We could of course build it ourselves, or try and find somewhere >> > where its actually available, but since I managed to get this >> combination >> > working, I never really investigated it further. >> > >> > So again to emphasize, the reason we are using 4.4 is because of the >> tool >> > chain (docbkx) and getting that to work with either Docbook 4.5 or 5.0. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Jason >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolli...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Jason I saw your sed script to remove comments. That is that problem >> >> solved :-) >> >> >> >> I don't have any problem with the docbook toolchain and wouldn't >> >> lightly consider changing it. I think it works well. There is some >> >> learning involved and a shortage of non-technical tooling but yet it >> >> works well. I would consider upgrading to 5.0 (or 5.1) as that might >> >> widen the scope of tooling available and would be relatively painless. >> >> >> >> But I agree that we need to focus on the concrete requirements rather >> >> than products. And most of all, the content. >> >> >> >> On 7 April 2016 at 14:40, Jason Pickering <jason.p.picker...@gmail.com >> > >> >> wrote: >> >> > Perhaps, but see my earlier mail regarding framework wars. >> >> > >> >> > This is the same discussion we are having about testing, use this >> >> > framework >> >> > or that framework. However, there are still too few tests, as no one >> can >> >> > agree. >> >> > >> >> > We have something which works. We have content which needs to be >> >> > improved >> >> > and updated. If there is a compelling reason to move away from >> something >> >> > which, albeit somewhat dated ...works, maybe it would be good to >> outline >> >> > the >> >> > reasons for this change. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Knut Staring <knu...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> I see that Flare supports DITA, would that be a good alternative to >> >> >> DocBook? >> >> >> >> >> >> http://dita.xml.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolli...@gmail.com >> > >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On a spectrum between low-level standardized technical docbook >> through >> >> >>> to "user friendly" (use Word), vendor-locked proprietary and patent >> >> >>> encumbered technology, this one seems to fall on the far right :-) >> >> >>> Not quite what I had in mind. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I can see the attraction but I would be very wary to go in this >> >> >>> direction. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On 7 April 2016 at 13:52, Rachael Brooke <rach...@dhis2.org> >> wrote: >> >> >>> > Hi everyone, >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Cecilia and I have been thinking about trying out a new tool that >> >> >>> > could >> >> >>> > handle big documentation projects, translation files and other >> >> >>> > resources. So >> >> >>> > it's good timing that this issue is being raised by you. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > We were considering looking into a solution which you may know, >> >> >>> > called >> >> >>> > MadCap Flare: http://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/flare/. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > If you have any other suggestions, we'd be happy to hear your >> >> >>> > thoughts. >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Thanks for bringing this up - we're investigating! >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > Rachael >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Knut Staring <knu...@gmail.com> >> >> >>> > wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> Would be good to hear from our new documentation experts >> (Rachael >> >> >>> >> and >> >> >>> >> Cecilia) on this issue (what kinds of tools they would be >> >> >>> >> comfortable >> >> >>> >> with >> >> >>> >> etc). >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> Knut >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Bob Jolliffe >> >> >>> >> <bobjolli...@gmail.com> >> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Hi Jason, Lars >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> I am not sure the link about oxygen nested comments is really >> >> >>> >>> addressing the "thing". >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> I agree with Lars that having the "<!-- Created by Serna Free >> -->" >> >> >>> >>> text inserted into all our documents is ugly, wrong and >> >> >>> >>> misleading. >> >> >>> >>> If you are using Serna Free I think it might be a simple >> courtesy >> >> >>> >>> to >> >> >>> >>> just strip those comments before committing. Of course its >> >> >>> >>> possible >> >> >>> >>> to forget and maybe some sort of removal hook could be >> configured >> >> >>> >>> automatically (sed, xsltproc ..) but its maybe not so hard to >> just >> >> >>> >>> delete the line. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> I am not sure of what the problem is with oxygen encountering >> >> >>> >>> these >> >> >>> >>> comments are though. Maybe I also don't get the "thing" :-) I >> >> >>> >>> open >> >> >>> >>> the docbook files with oxygen and don't encounter a problem >> >> >>> >>> related >> >> >>> >>> to >> >> >>> >>> the comment. The docbook4 "type" seems to be immediately >> >> >>> >>> recognized >> >> >>> >>> and I get a Docbook4 menu appear when I switch to author mode >> >> >>> >>> whether >> >> >>> >>> the comment is there or not. Is it an oxygen version issue (I >> >> >>> >>> currently use 17.1) or is there some other issue I am missing? >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Though I think there are deeper issues at play. First is that >> >> >>> >>> Serna >> >> >>> >>> Free seems no longer to be maintained (as a free version). One >> >> >>> >>> consequence of this being that using it keeps us frozen in >> time at >> >> >>> >>> docbook 4.4. The last release of the docbook 4.x series was >> 4.5 >> >> >>> >>> back >> >> >>> >>> in 2006. The 5.0 (and now 5.1) series has been out for quite a >> >> >>> >>> long >> >> >>> >>> time now (2009?). AFAIK the only reason for sticking with 4.x >> has >> >> >>> >>> been the availability of Serna Free. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> (Which is not a small thing. The sad truth is that another >> good >> >> >>> >>> free >> >> >>> >>> candidate for docbook editing by non-technical authors hasn't >> ever >> >> >>> >>> emerged. Of course if you are more than a bit geeky then emacs >> >> >>> >>> does >> >> >>> >>> a >> >> >>> >>> good job. But even I don't use emacs anymore for editing >> docbook >> >> >>> >>> documents. I use oxygen, which is not free.) >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Two thoughts come to mind: >> >> >>> >>> (i) it probably really makes sense to rejoin the (docbook) >> world >> >> >>> >>> and >> >> >>> >>> move from 4.4 to 5.0. Particularly if the now defunct Serna >> Free >> >> >>> >>> is >> >> >>> >>> the only factor holding us back. I understand that there are >> >> >>> >>> transforms available to make this a painless journey. The best >> >> >>> >>> available in terms of free editing tools with a strong docbook >> >> >>> >>> focus >> >> >>> >>> seems to be the eclipse DEP4E plugin. Otherwise there are the >> >> >>> >>> non-free tools as well as host of xml schema aware editors. >> >> >>> >>> Admittedly none of these really qualify as eminently suitable >> for >> >> >>> >>> non-technical authors so the problem isn't really completely >> >> >>> >>> solved, >> >> >>> >>> but maybe improved slightly. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> (ii) more radically, it might be time to consider moving from >> >> >>> >>> docbook >> >> >>> >>> altogether. There are a host of "cool" alternatives (markdown >> and >> >> >>> >>> friends) none of which I am fond of, but they have enthusiastic >> >> >>> >>> supporters. To me they all seem like endless reinventions of >> >> >>> >>> roff/nroff/groff and certainly lack the maturity of docbook. >> But >> >> >>> >>> maybe the world has moved to a stage that its possible to >> consider >> >> >>> >>> editing html5/css3 documents directly? Certainly there is >> >> >>> >>> considerable user friendly editing tools available. And >> >> >>> >>> conversion >> >> >>> >>> to >> >> >>> >>> pdf seems not to be a problem. Though whether this would cause >> >> >>> >>> the >> >> >>> >>> clean structure of documents to descend into anarchy I don't >> >> >>> >>> really >> >> >>> >>> know. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> My 2 cents. I would certainly advocate (i) above (though admit >> >> >>> >>> its a >> >> >>> >>> strong response to just getting rid of Serna Free comments). >> (ii) >> >> >>> >>> frightens me quite a bit. Certainly would be a lot of work. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> In the end comes down to (i) who will do most of the >> documentation >> >> >>> >>> and >> >> >>> >>> what do they like or tolerate, (ii) what effort is justified to >> >> >>> >>> fiddle >> >> >>> >>> with what is really quite a nice looking set of existing >> >> >>> >>> documentation. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> For the moment lets at least agree to keep those horrible >> comments >> >> >>> >>> out. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> Bob >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> On 6 April 2016 at 11:31, Jason Pickering >> >> >>> >>> <jason.p.picker...@gmail.com> >> >> >>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> > For instance, perhaps this >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > http://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic3658.html >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > which seems to describe a means of getting around comments. >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Jason Pickering >> >> >>> >>> > <jason.p.picker...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> Hi Lars, >> >> >>> >>> >> I think there must be a way around this, and I would not be >> in >> >> >>> >>> >> favor >> >> >>> >>> >> at >> >> >>> >>> >> all of ditching Serna. Its a good tool and not everyone has >> >> >>> >>> >> access >> >> >>> >>> >> to >> >> >>> >>> >> a >> >> >>> >>> >> relatively expensive commercial tool like Oxygen. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> Serna Free inserts this automatically unfortunately when it >> >> >>> >>> >> saves >> >> >>> >>> >> the >> >> >>> >>> >> document, but lets look for a look around to deal with this >> in >> >> >>> >>> >> Oxygen. >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> Regards, >> >> >>> >>> >> Jason >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Lars Helge Ă˜verland >> >> >>> >>> >> <l...@dhis2.org> >> >> >>> >>> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi, >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> re the documentation.The Serna editor horribly inserts a >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> <!-- Created by Serna Free --> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> comment in all files it creates before the DTD. This throws >> >> >>> >>> >>> off >> >> >>> >>> >>> Oxygen >> >> >>> >>> >>> from detecting it to be a Docbook format. Lets not use >> Serna >> >> >>> >>> >>> anymore >> >> >>> >>> >>> or at >> >> >>> >>> >>> least make sure we don't get comments in the beginning of >> >> >>> >>> >>> docbook >> >> >>> >>> >>> xml >> >> >>> >>> >>> files. >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> -- >> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars Helge Ă˜verland >> >> >>> >>> >>> Lead developer, DHIS 2 >> >> >>> >>> >>> University of Oslo >> >> >>> >>> >>> Skype: larshelgeoverland >> >> >>> >>> >>> http://www.dhis2.org >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >> >> >>> >>> >>> Post to : dhis2-documenters@lists.launchpad.net >> >> >>> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >> >> >>> >>> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> -- >> >> >>> >>> >> Jason P. Pickering >> >> >>> >>> >> email: jason.p.picker...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>> >> tel:+46764147049 >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > -- >> >> >>> >>> > Jason P. Pickering >> >> >>> >>> > email: jason.p.picker...@gmail.com >> >> >>> >>> > tel:+46764147049 >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >> >> >>> >>> > Post to : dhis2-documenters@lists.launchpad.net >> >> >>> >>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >> >> >>> >>> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> >>> >>> > >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >> >> >>> >>> Post to : dhis2-documenters@lists.launchpad.net >> >> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters >> >> >>> >>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >> >>> >> Knut Staring >> >> >>> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >> >> >>> >> Norway: +4791880522 >> >> >>> >> Skype: knutstar >> >> >>> >> http://dhis2.org >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Knut Staring >> >> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo >> >> >> Norway: +4791880522 >> >> >> Skype: knutstar >> >> >> http://dhis2.org >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Jason P. Pickering >> >> > email: jason.p.picker...@gmail.com >> >> > tel:+46764147049 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Jason P. Pickering >> > email: jason.p.picker...@gmail.com >> > tel:+46764147049 >> > > > > -- > Jason P. Pickering > email: jason.p.picker...@gmail.com > tel:+46764147049 > -- Knut Staring Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo Norway: +4791880522 Skype: knutstar http://dhis2.org
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