On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 00:45:39 -0800, Paulo Pinto <pj...@progtools.org>
wrote:
On 29.12.2013 06:59, Adam Wilson wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 03:13:53 -0800, Barry L. <barry.lapth...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello everyone, first post...
Just saw this:
http://joeduffyblog.com/2013/12/27/csharp-for-systems-programming/
D (and Rust) get a mention with this quote: "There are other
candidates early in their lives, too, most notably Rust and D. But
hey, my team works at Microsoft, where there is ample C# talent and
community just an arm’s length away."
I want to make a point here that many people come to do looking for
something that is as performant as C++ with the ease of C# or Java, and
for the most part (using LDC/GDC) you get exactly that. This language
could convince me to go back to C#. Particularly if it's cross-platform.
C# is a solid language that is used by a lot of people. And it is
supported by a large corporate entity with mountains of money and a
vested interest in making it successful. They can kill bugs and make
improvements at a phenomenal pace (look at the job they did with C#
1.0->2.0).
This needs to be a wake up call for the D community. For a long time D
has occupied the Programmer Efficient and Safe Native Compiled Language
niche more or less unchallenged in any serious way (with a nod to Rust).
If Microsoft actually goes through with this (and they will since the
.NET runtime is murderous on mobile device battery performance) the
argument for D will get much harder to make. Yes we can argue the
ideology of one technical bullet point versus another, but that misses
the point. The vast majority of programmers pick their languages based
not on ideological purity, but on ability to get stuff done quickly.
Obviously this is more than just the language, it's also the
availability of tutorials and examples. But there isn't much we can do
about that at this point. And there is a LOT of things that C# can do
that D cannot. Cross-library namespace composability is big on my
personal list. Or proper shared libraries. Or, etc.
I know that I wanted out of the Microsoft world for performance and
cross-platform reasons. However with this project, especially the
interest in cross-platforming it that they seem to be showing, they will
have a much easier time getting me back. After all I came from to D from
C#, it wouldn't be hard to go back.
So while we're celebrating that D mentioned in an article that made the
front-page of reddit (by virtue of it's author being well-respected and
the importance of his employer) let us also reflect on what this news
most likely means for D. Microsoft can invalidate us almost overnight
with mountains money and the size of their community. Yes we got an
honorable mention, that also means we're on the radars of people who
matter...
Well, this is nothing new I would say. Microsoft Research already has
been using C# for systems programming in the context of the Singularity
project (Sing#). They just didn't brought the result of their work into
mainstream Windows, except for the MDIL compiler used in WP8.
Now with the native political side gaining strength after the Vista
fiasco, it is to be expected something like this, if the wind doesn't
change again.
A future native C# compiler was also mentioned at VS 2013 release
keynote.
--
Paulo
Indeed. However, the difference is that, they're going public with it. I
mean it's all well and good that they've built native C# compilers before
... but now they're going to let the little people play with one. I've
followed native C# compilers since Spec# in Singularity 1. There has never
been a real competitor to D that anybody outside of MSR could actually do
anything with. That's really my whole point. But it's an important one.
Now we have another option for a Safe, Efficient, Native language that you
don't have to be a masochist to use. And it's going to evolve much faster
than D...
--
Adam Wilson
IRC: LightBender
Project Coordinator
The Horizon Project
http://www.thehorizonproject.org/
