On Sunday, 26 February 2012 at 01:18:55 UTC, James Miller wrote:
On Feb 26, 2012 8:53 AM, "foobar" <f...@bar.com> wrote:
That's analogous to saying that you don't want to depend on a
lighter
since you can make your own fire by rubbing a stone with a wood
stick. A
lighter does tie you to a certain technology but loosing the
lighter
doesn't make for more productivity. Misuse of the tool or using
the wrong
one sure could hamper productivity but that's hardly the fault
of
technology.
No, its analogous to not using a lighter that only lights
evergreens, and
only works in Europe. Again, this is blatantly the view that
there there is
either notepad or vs, ignoring the masses of features of the
editors in
between. I've used vs, I don't find it to have many features -
that I use -
that vim doesn't.
I see the analogy went over your head. Besides, what's wrong with
a lighter that only works in Europe? Works perfectly fine for me!
:)
The above regarding MS is incorrect. MS has lots of automation
and is far
better at it than *nix systems are. Its Powershell is superior
to the *nix
"everything is a file" ideology and there were several attempts
to copy the
concept to *nix with Python and Ruby.
Im not even sure what you're getting at here, I didn't realise
powershell
had an ideology, I don't think bash does either. And sure
powershell, a
nonstandard add-on, is good. Try automating something that
wasn't made by
microsoft though, try doing administration of it remotely
without rdp.
Programming a craft as much as it is a process. I tend to
liken it to
carpentry, you have set steps, you design and plan and build
etc, but
there's creativity there. As such, programmers (I've found)
tend to
pick an environment that suits them best. I use a minimal
system that
I can configure and hack to my heart's content. My colleague
uses a
Macbook pro that he never shuts down. The designer here uses
a Macbook
Air. And we all work fine, there is no "One True Way" to make
a chair,
why should there be one for writing a program?
My point is that the tools that programmers use, like
compilers and
linkers and parser-generators and build systems and
deployment tools
and source control and x and y and z and .... are going to be
used by
a wide range of people, in a wide range of environments, for
a wide
range of purposes, so they should keep in mind that maybe you
/don't/
have a certain tool or feature available. So you make sure
that the
experience at the lowest common denominator, a vt100
terminal, is
acceptable, maybe not perfect, but good enough, then you
build from
there. If that means that D is geared towards less typing,
then good,
especially if you can do the extra typing and not break
things. It
/is/ possible to make everybody mostly happy, and that is by
aiming at
the people using `cat`* to program and hitting the people
using VS
along the way.
* Programming using `cat` is not recommended.**
** Even though /real/ programmers use `cat`
--
James Miller
I disagree. Simply put:
+---------+ +---------+
| Magic | | comfort |
| happens | | zone |
| here! | +---------+
+---------+
Magic cannot happen here ^.
What on earth does this mean? In the context it seems to
suggest that I
should be struggling to learn a new environment if I want to do
something
amazing.
I'm guessing you meant that I should try something new, but
that doesn't
need to be the editor. It's far more interesting to try to
build outside of
my "comfort zone".
In fact, your grade-school platitude annoys me, it suggests
that I'm stuck
in my ways and avoiding new tech because I like my terminal. I
started in
IDEs, and worked my way down. I also have the most fun working
outside my
comfort zone and doing something new, spending hours looking at
code going
"why wont you work! Why do you hate me!" Then finally getting a
breakthrough... amazing.
--
James Miller
The picture is both a simple fact of life and in our current
discussion a response to the above attitude of "lowest common
denominator". I'm suggesting that progress is made by progressing
forward and not by retreating backwards.
Your agitated response suggests I hit a nerve. That's a sign that
my post had an effect.