Regarding the person deciding whether or not to swipe HF amateur
frequencies, the competence required is communications systems
design, information theory, radio progagation, and emergency
communications.
As a response to a suggested emergency communication system designed
based around access to geosynchronous transponders and the provision
of autonomous mobile ground stations that can rapidly establish
WLANs in stricken areas, "Generally communications solutions are not
made with respect to individual bands rather on whom you need to
communicate with and the avalibility of communications resources"
strikes me as a non-sequitur. However, this isn't the place to
debate the design of emergency communication systems. If you want to
discuss this further, lets take it offline.
This is, however, a reasonable place to take issue with suggestions
that amateur HF bands be used to provide high-bandwidth emergency
communications under threat of band reallocation.
73,
Dave, AA6YQ
--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> See below. Walt/K5YFW
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Bernstein
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 4:30 PM
> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Some thing we've talked about.
>
>
> One presumes that the big dish on the Army's van was pointed at a
> geosynchronous satellite. It seems unlikely that anything we
> conspire to do on HF will come within a order of magnitude of what
> can be done with a broadband satellite link, Walt. What amateur
> radio has to offer here is a geographically-dispersed pool of
> skilled, dedicated operators; if you want to provide
a "competitive"
> service, you'll need to provide those operators with a lot more
> bandwidth than is practical via HF.
>
> Well I think we need more "trained" hams who can act as radio
> operators on their radios or some other radio, i.e. a
military
> radio or FEMA radio or even a local/state government radio.
>
> And I think that the techniques we develop just operating
nets
> is valuable on any frequency.
>
> As far as high bandwidth, yes I think we need to learn how
> to take home satellite Internet systems and take them to the
field
> and hook them up to wireless 802.11 networks to run E-Mail.
>
> There REALLY is still going to be places where only one
radio system
> is needed and a multiple operator single HF data station can
be
> very useful.
>
> As for this threat of frequency swiping you keep attempting to use
> as motiviation, consider this (admittedly oversimplified) analysis:
>
> The decision to swipe HF amateur frequencies will either be made
by
> a competent person, or an incompetent person. If the person is
> incompetent, it doesn't matter what we do; our only defense is
> the "hey look, the incompetent bureaucrats are screwing up the
only
> emergency communications that actually work" gambit, hoping that
> between the media and the politicians someone sees red meat. If,
on
> the other thand, the decision is made by a competent person, then
he
> or she will quickly realize that HF frequencies are not the
solution.
>
> I'm not sure that a decision to "swipe" our frequencies
would be
> made by a co,petent or incompetent individual...perhaps the
> individual is VERY competent but just not knowledgable about
> amateur radio.
>
> There are already two frequencies set aside for the Military
to
> contact amateur radio operators on...one is 53.3 FM and the
other
> is in 10M and I think its an FM frequency. Also, the
military and
> FEMA are told that 146-148 can be used by FEMA or the
Military
> without cordination with anyone except they are not to
interfer with
> established amateur radio operations. 146.52 is also
mentioned as a
> frequency to use under certain circumstances. You can find
all this
> on the FEMA web site.
>
> Generally communications solutions are not made with respect
to
> individual bands rather on whom you need to communicate with
and
> the avalibility of communications resources. You don't
deploy a
> satellite voice/data system for a single user need. But you
might
> deploy a single HF station.
>
> Walt, I suggest that you apply your considerable energy and
> persuasiveness to obtaining access to a couple geosynchronous
> transponders. Attempting to solve the problem with HF is, as Sagan
> said, "Like trying to get to stars by climbing a tree. You can
make
> progress for awhile, but you'll never actually get there".
>
>
> Again, generally communications solutions are not made with
respect
> to individual bands rather on whom you need to communicate
with and
> the avalibility of communications resources. You don't
deploy a
> satellite voice/data system for a single user need. But you
might
> deploy a single HF station.
>
> 73,
>
> Dave, AA6YQ
>
>
> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, DuBose Walt Civ AETC
CONS/LGCA
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Here are some excerpts from E-Mail between individuals deeply
> involved in
> > FEMA and NDMS communications.
> >
> > From a FEMA Incident Commander who is an active amateur radio
> operator...
> >
> > "The subject of this email is Communications and it is from the
> > Southern Mississippi FEMA Incident Manager. He was without cell
> phone,
> > and Internet capability. He cornered a State Police Car and
asked
> them
> > to be his commo. They said fine but they had no commo too. Jim
was
> at
> > wits end when an Army Captain came to him and asked if he had
any
> commo.
> > Jim said no commo and it's a big problem. The Captain said no
> problem,
> > and got on his radio and ordered an Army Communications Van to
be
> placed
> > at Jim's disposal. Two hours later a van arrived and it had 4
guys
> that
> > set up a big dish antenna and then asked Jim how many telephones
he
> > needed and what computers needed the Internet? Jim ordered 5
> telephones
> > and the Internet for his laptop. Soon Jim was on the phone to
FEMA
> > letting them know about the situation and giving them his
telephone
> > number. Jim was found by the Salvation Army. They said they can
> set up
> > 85 soup kitchens but needed $560,000 fast to stock the kitchens.
> Jim
> > called FEMA requesting the funding and the Salvation Army had
the
> money
> > in 3 hours."
> >
> > "Due to this success story from Katrina, we are all told to use
the
> > Army for communications support and I have the phone number to
> call when
> > needed. I fear that what we can do with Ham Radio is too little
> and far
> > too late. We can help with Health and Welfare traffic which is
not
> done
> > by the official part of an Incident."
> >
> > From an amateur radio operator who works closely with NDMS and
on
> a DMAT
> > (Disaster Medical Assistance Team)...
> >
> > "Your posting this morning was most timely and coincided with a
> FL3-DMAT
> > team meeting I was attending. To underscore the points you
made,
> members
> > of the Comms unit, all of whom hold an Amateur Radio license,
were
> advised
> > this morning that NO Amateur Radio, FRS or GMRS gear may be
> brought to a
> > deployment, effective immediately. If any of the above is
> observed by FEMA,
> >
> > the DMAT unit will lose its funding for the next twelve months!"
> >
> > "It is becoming more and more apparent the Feds are doing what
> they can,
> > short of taking our frequency allocations and licenses away, to
> push Amateur
> >
> > Radio out of the picture. I fear once they have achieved
success
> doing to,
> > they will use it to justify a revocation of spectrum and license
> > privileges."
> >
> > This should be a wake-up call...amateur radio has less and less
to
> offer
> > emergency and disaster relief communications.
> >
> > While I like nothing more than a good rag chew on 40 or 75 with
my
> amateur
> > radio friends of 40+ years,
> > I believe that those days of me being able to do so are rapidly
> coming to
> > and end.
> >
> > Today ones community service is evaluated as "value to the
> community, state,
> > nations." Funding for groups is based on that.
> >
> > With the money set aside for Katrina and Rita relief, you should
> have been
> > able to purchase complete new HF dual band stations of every ham
> in Texas,
> > Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida...plus a few other
> states. But
> > that is hardly the amount given to the ARRL.
> >
> > The more value you bring to the table, the better your position
of
> survival
> > is. This doesn't make it right or anything else...it is just
the
> way it is.
> >
> > Survival of the "righteous and just" is not assured. Survival
of
> the
> > "performers" is.
> >
> > What can amateur radio being to the table?
> >
> > No quick answers or answers at all...we just need to think long
> and hard
> > about how we can be of significant value to emergency and
disaster
> relief
> > operations.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Walt/K5YFW
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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