The point is...add as many tools as you can to your tool box. But in today's economy, that is so dependent on movement of data, the loss of that ability will cause catastrophic consequences that would have never occurred in 1945.
In 1945 the U.S. military ran long range HF communications almost entirely on CW...today, the total amount of data throughput of WWII would not even launch a single fighter. As time changes, so must technology...as experimenters in communications, the question is, should we not be seeking better and better technology and exploiting currently developed commercial technology. Should we be satisfied with the status quo or seek better communications solutions...faster, better, cheaper. Walt/K5YFW -----Original Message----- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:29 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: The Internet is Unreliable for Amateur RadioService Emergency Communications Walt, I meant Autovon for phone (non-data) use. Served agencies will usually use all their means before they turn to Amateur radio. Many times they will use a backup gov't or military service before us. We are a backup service mostly but we could play a larger roll. That is up to the localities involved. Internet usage in amateur circles, such as Winlink is valid as long as it works. Any technology is viable as long as it works. We shouldn't condemn something just because it 'might' not work sometimes. Sure a voice link may be faster and easier but the served agency may prefer a digital solution for archival purposes. If that is was they want we should see if we can build it. But I'll pose this problem. A sever solar storm that completely shuts out HF - 6M SSB. Nails the power grid across the country and knocks out or degrades commercial satellite use. Within 6 hours we start loosing cell sites and within 12-72 hours central offices start dropping out if not already knocked offline. Some secondary damage to bridges knock out major fiber links between cities. Now what? We'll have to adjust our methods to the situation. Some areas may have a Packet network that can handle traffic hundreds of miles. Some don't and will put it together. Others will use PSK31, Pactor, or CW. (Or any mode that can punch through. I don't know if PSK31 would or not.) Do we really want to limit what we can do because it sometimes might not work sometimes? Of course not, lets keep putting things into our tool box. Charlie Crizer, KF4MNE Fairfax County (Alexandria) Virginia, US QTH: 38-47.96N / 77-05.17W - FM18kt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Winlink2000/Airmail -----Original Message----- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DuBose Walt Civ AETC CONS/LGCA Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:17 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: The Internet is Unreliable for Amateur RadioService Emergency Communications Charlie, Autovon is now called Defense Switching Network. But cannot handle data very well as it is not set up to do so. In fact, the network will reject modem signals by design. Government agencies DO purchase bandwidth to deal with disasters and emergencies...above normal and wartime needs. And much of the increased bandwidth is on contract but called for and put on-line only when needed. If you look Internet bandwidth/connectivity available to government agencies from various agencies such as GSA, Navy, Air Force, DISA, FEMA, DHS contracting vehicles, you will notice that they are with will known IT providers who meet the required government specifications. By law, the government is somewhat limited in who they can get Internet service from and if it is a DoD agency, there are even more limitations since the connectivity must be connected to the Military Network...separate from the Internet. The problem which you really finger is the failure of Internet connectivity in certain regions/geographical areas rather than the entire U.S. or other country. Currently there is a government facility that does not have Internet connectivity. The problem is being worked by technicians on the telephone...but what if no telephones? How would they work the problem between the facility and its network operating center over 1000 miles away? How can or can amateur radio help if this were and emergency? Walt/K5YFW -----Original Message----- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 10:07 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: The Internet is Unreliable for Amateur RadioService Emergency Communications There is a difference between an attack and a disaster. If we have a major storm or an earthquake, the ability of the Internet to function outside the disaster area will not be affected. It is incumbent upon served agencies and gov't responders to make sure that they have reliable Internet service. Just as they have priority service through cell carriers and the regional Bells. They also have Autovon (or its replacement) lines. The Internet is not one massive structure. It's just a collection of linked Networks. Each independent from the other. Some are completely independent and separate from the Internet. Some are more secure and robust than others. In most cases, the long haul infrastructure of the Internet is the same as our long distance and Intralata phone system. These are rather robust systems. Are they infallible? Of course not. But they are here to stay and where they can be of service they can and will be used. Charlie Crizer , KF4MNE Cell 202-210-6346 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Winlink2000/Airmail Disaster Services - Communications (Northern VA) Disaster Action Team Lead (Fairfax County South) American Red Cross of the National Capital Area -----Original Message----- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kd4e Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 22:08 To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: The Internet is Unreliable for Amateur RadioService Emergency Communications > Lets make a little wager. I'll guarantee this message gets to the list > using the supposedly unreliable SMTP technology. I'll guarantee it for X > dollars that it works. Now - for what value of Y dollars will anybody > here guarantee me that it doesn't work? Do we lose one message in a > hundred? A thousand? > > 73 > Bill - WA7NWP Had I bet you a million dollars Sunday morning that your message would not make it to me with 10 hours of less I would be a millionaire. All day today I have been receiving messages sent late Saturday and all day Sunday -- delayed almost 24 hours due to an Internet glitch. In a crisis such lack of reliability could mean the death of 1, 100, 1,000, 10,000 100,000, or perhaps millions. The Internet has been successfully attacked before and it is probable that in any significant direct attack on the USA it will be a prime target. I believe that the Internet has a few critical switch points same as the gas supply system in the USA. One of more taken out by man or nature and the Internet as we know it begins to collapse. Point-to-point radio is vastly less vulnerable. -- Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E ... somewhere in FL URL: bibleseven (dot) com Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links Need a Digital mode QSO? Connect to Telnet://cluster.dynalias.org Other areas of interest: The MixW Reflector : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup/ DigiPol: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipol (band plan policy discussion) Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
