Your formatted-text email makes it a bit hard to pick out quotes. I hope
I didn't miss any.
On 25/07/2024 2:37 pm, Gregory Casamento wrote:
I can only speak for myself, but I wasn't in the greatest of moods
yesterday at all. I apologize if I came off as abrasive.
No problem. It was justified, in context.
If that's so it's best not to make assertions based on assumptions about
where this project is going. We have had a wayland backend for about 3
years. Granted it was never posted under news because it is still
being worked on. One thing I can tell you from my own experience is
that announcing something too soon can sometimes be detrimental as
people will try it and immediately get turned off.
Fair points. Conceded.
There are only about 6-8 active developers right now. This is not
counting the people at Algoriddim or Keysight who do occasionally submit
PRs. It's difficult to know when, also, to put someone else's work up
as news as they may not be ready for it to be reviewed. In other
words... we are vastly under manned. :)
Everybody is, unless they work on RHEL or Ubuntu.
Very true. If you have noticed, things are a bit weird here in the
states on that spectrum, but we won't discuss that here. I should keep
the politics out of the mix. I have questions about using X/Twitter in
generate since was bought because it doesn't seem that people are really
listening there anymore.
Yup. I agree with Lars: switch to Mastodon, and maybe just use
Buffer.app (a free account will do, it's all I have) to schedule posts
to both.
I had one post that was a little bit harsh against a recent client due
to their misunderstanding of "Free Software" as the person who ran the
company thought that because I was their "liaison" to GNUstep that the
work done on GNUstep on their behalf was free. That's why that one was
missing.
OK. Then maybe delete the tweet as well?
You mean calling Probono out for what he actually did?
Not just that. The whole paragraph and the dismissive comments about
overlapping projects, Ricardo's about Cocotron, and so on.
No, it's not. I'm the lead and I have the agreement of the core
developers. It's a development environment and not a desktop because WE
SAY SO.
You continue to miss my point.
You have built a desktop. As a demo that GS is remarkably complete and
powerful, this is a *huge* thing and you do the project vast harm by
denying it when you ought to be celebrating it.
Compared to multiple other FOSS desktops it's amazing. Examples:
* incomplete (Lumina)
* forks of old codebases (Trinity, MATE)
* the multiple half-done Win95 clones (Cinnamon, Fallback, ZorinOS)
* shallow skins around GNOME (Budgie)
* eternally unfinished and left behind by technology (Enlightenment)
But you know what? *All* of these are first-class citizens and are
shipping in >1 distro or OS.
GS is _better_. It should be up there with the others.
Whether you intended to do it or not, _it is the best advert you have_
for GNUstep. Stop disowning your abandoned child. It looks really bad.
Embrace it. You guys fathered it. Admit it and bring it into the family.
To your point... the desktop environments being done by the interested
parties: GSDE, Gershwin, NEXTSPACE... are better than we can manage to
do as the core developers. Those guys are FOCUSED on making desktops.
That is _not_ the point. Not at all.
GNUstep does not have the advantage of being
adopted by major distros as their default GUI. Believe it or not this
was supposed to be the case.
I know. It should be. Ask why not. Ask how you can fix that.
The FSF planned on using GNUstep as it's
MAIN development and desktop environment, but when GNOME was introduced
it stole our thunder. :) Long story which I won't get into here... but
Miguel De Icaza was once a member of GS. I'll leave it there.
Remarkable! Really? When?
Also... what we do is analogous to what some companies that make cars
do. Mitsubishi, for instance, provides the engines for MANY automakers,
but they don't make the car. That's what we do. We make the ENGINE
that makes things go.
You make my point for me. *Mistubishi makes vehicles.*
https://www.mitsubishicars.com/
This is in no way a conflicting goal with being a programming framework.
It is an _advertisement for it._
I'm not so sure.
My full time job is observing and commentating on the FOSS industry. I
am telling you. Be sure.
https://www.apple.com/us/search/cocoa?src=globalnav <https://
www.apple.com/us/search/cocoa?src=globalnav>
Note: the programming API is not there.
You're delusional.
I gave the *proof* in my post. Follow the link. It is right there.
Also, it doesn't matter what THEY call it. Whatever
Apple calls it doesn't matter.
Yes it does. There is zero point in trying to explain what the project
is and does using names that are no longer used by the people who coined
the names. It is a huge waste of effort.
It's also not helpful to refer to it as OPENSTEP as you did in an
article a while back given that Apple no longer mentions that either.
Then come up with something better.
As is OPENSTEP and NeXTSTEP as you used in that poorly written article.
*Angrily* Tell you what, Greg. If you try to stop insulting my work, I
won't insult yours. Deal?
So stop using those too when referring to GNUstep. Alright?
No.
All of Apple's frameworks are still written in ObjC.
Irrelevant. The question is not "are they going to rewrite the whole
thing?" because the answer is "of COURSE not!"
The vastly more important question is: how much _new code_ is being
written in Obj-C?
Also, you'll excuse me if I don't take the word of people on reddit as
anything official.
Sure. It was the first link I found, nothing more.
I have my ear to the ground. I know what's happening.
I think you are only hearing the whole story, because your worldview
here is radically different to mine.
But, PLEASE, as a non-
programmer, refrain from telling US (the people writing the actual code)
what language we should use as the core part of our frameworks.
And AGAIN you misread what I said. I did not say that. I am not even
hinting or implying that. You are putting words in my mouth I would
never say and that is rude and hostile and it is very hard not to be
angered by it.
I am not suggesting rewriting a single line. That is absurd.
*ALL* I am saying is that you need Swift bindings for GS so that Swift
code can be used with GS. That is all.
--
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