On Monday, July 26, 2021 07:36 PM IST, "Udo Grabowski (IMK)" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 26/07/2021 14:51, [email protected] wrote: > > On Monday, July 26, 2021 05:34 PM IST, "Udo Grabowski (IMK)" > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On 26/07/2021 13:35, [email protected] wrote: > >>> cross-posting since i accidentally addressed this one to omnios-discuss > >>> the first time. sorry. > >>> > >>> i have noticed a trend amongst communities oriented towards building open > >>> source unix-like operating systems; the project starts off as being quite > >>> lean, but then acquires a lot of fat due to dependence on the non-core > >>> toolkit. > >>> > >>> from the illumos perspective, i would say, "core" would be the kernel + > >>> userland, all written using a combination of ansi-c and the system > >>> default shell (korn). > >>> > >>> afaik, 'ips' is built using python which supposedly coordinates between > >>> minisat (written in ansi-c), the userland and some mechanism to get files > >>> off the network. > >>> i am not yet clear about how 'ips' works, and i am working at overcoming > >>> that by consulting "till wegmueller" who has written a couple of > >>> implementations of 'ips' using different programming languages (it think; > >>> go and rust), but, it would be worthwhile to get a broader input from > >>> those in the community who were from "sun microsystems" as to why python > >>> was chosen over ksh93. > >>> > >>> also, after an email thread on omnios-disucss, it has been revealed that > >>> there are a bunch of tools on the base system which depend of 'gnu' bash, > >>> is there any way that could be rectified? or is that issue only within > >>> omnios and not addressable by the illumos community at large? > >>> > >>> is there any way the illumos community could get interested in shedding > >>> it's fat even at the userland level? > >>> > >> > >> Even if many here agree that, e.g., bash (or gnu tools in general) is > >> nothing we really want here, you cannot ignore its dominance elsewhere, > >> especially in the Linux domain where most of the software we like to > >> provide also is targeted at nowadays. So if you want to have the ability > >> to ever compile anything coming from upstream, or even enable your users > >> to compile other software they download for themselves, you have to > >> provide all that "fat" if you don't want to constantly rewrite what > >> you've pulled. Whining to upstream about that will do nothing, you will > >> be simply ignored... That's the reality today, you have to cope with > >> that. > >> > >> The same applies (even more) for python. And ksh93 has been obsoleted > >> in Linux, so guess what happens next in the foreseeable future... > >> > >> If you don't want to be left completely isolated quickly, you have to > >> adapt. > > > > udo, your logic is flawed. > > if you think that just because ksh93 being obsoleted under linux should be > > reason enough to move to some other tool like python, then going by that > > rationale, we should all be moving our bases over from illumos to linux, > > yeah right, if you don't want to be left completely isolated quickly, you > > have to adapt! > > That is exactly what I'm expecting and planning for our group ... > they've demanded it for years now. that would be great going for the illumos community. shedding fat as well as those people who aren't genuinely interested in a positive future for illumos would go a long way for the overall health of the project. hope you would be a good person and not bad mouth the project and community after you've left. ------------------------------------------ illumos: illumos-discuss Permalink: https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/T8b661f3611aef44c-Mf6bd0feffc4ded761fe3532e Delivery options: https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/subscription
