I gotta do a bit of advertising here and say that I'm hosting a Lean Methods for IT workshop at LISA this year where I hope to expand what people are hearing/feeling at Devops since there's a lot of themes borrowed from there.
Should be good. Sign up early. Yaddayadda. --mac On Jun 23, 2015, at 09:09, Matt Lawrence <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I have recently read "Toyota Kata" and "The Open Organization". Recommended. -- Matt On 06/23/2015 01:08 AM, Joseph Kern wrote: Sounds like a Phoenix Project BoF session needs to happen at the next LISA. :-) Thanks for all the great recommendations. I have quite a reading list ahead of me! On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:20 PM, Derek J. Balling <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 LISA absolutely has been preaching it. USENIX the organization "gets it", but my take from the community is that the community writ-large does not. I think USENIX/LISA is doing a noble job of trying to jam DevOps into the hearts-and-minds of attendees, but I hear a LOT of folks, over and over again, rejecting it out of hand. Talking to other attendees, I get a sense that "newcomers" to LISA are accepting of it, because they haven't been tainted by their fellow attendees' biases yet, but the long-time attendees (who are, for good or ill, the movers and shakers of the conference) are too entrenched in their beliefs to make substantial change. So yes, thanks for clarifying that bit, because I do think it's important to differentiate between the community-at-large and the leadership in charge of setting programs. D On 6/22/2015 11:42 AM, Chris Snell wrote: > I actually beg to differ on the feeling from LISA. LISA since I've > been attending (~2009) has been preaching the DevOps culture > pretty significantly, almost to the point of being repetitive year > after year so much that I've considered not going for a few years. > > I will second/third the recommendation of Phoenix Project. I > managed to get a free copy (and a free Kindle copy), and couldn't > put the book down; it's a very easy read. I keep loaning out my > physical copy to folks at $WORK, trying to bring others out of the > stone age :). > > - Chris > > On Mon, 22 Jun 2015, Derek J. Balling wrote: > > I just want to chime in and "+1" this entire post, because it > parallels a mental journey I've been going through the last few > weeks. > > This past year, I attended LISA, a day of Velocity-NY, and all of > Velocity-CA, and came away from Velocity feeling like it was a > culture that was forward-looking, collaborative, diverse, embracing > new ideas, while LISA was (with a few notable exceptions) > chock-a-block full of angry old white dudes (including to some part > myself, admittedly), stuck in the past, and seemed to want to shout > at the DevOps folks to get off their lawn. > > I say this only because it caused me to deeply re-examine what > culture *I* wanted to be a part of, and -- like Stephen -- I had > almost no exposure to a really quality DevOps environment > first-hand, so my perspective was tainted by years of exposure to a > community which seemed more interested in shunning "those upstart > kids" than embracing them. I picked up Phoenix Project (on several > people's recommendation) and it's next in line to be read after I > finish TAL's new Cloud book. > > I watched a video that gave me a lot of clarity around the varying > DevOps "meanings" to different people, and figured I would share it > as part of this discussion. I'll freely admit, Stephen's post is > the first in this thread that I've read start to finish, so if > someone else already posted this, well, shoot me. :-P > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DEToXsgrPc > > It's longish (hour-plus) so download it and watch it somewhere > comfortable. You won't regret it. > > D > > > > On 6/22/2015 11:12 AM, Stephen Potter wrote: >>>> Over the weekend, I also read "The Phoenix Project" >>>> (http://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Project-DevOps-Helping-Business/dp/0 988 > >>>> 262509/). >>>> DevOps has become a huge buzzword recently, and several >>>> colleagues had been recommending this book. >>>> >>>> I admit, I had been resisting studying up on DevOps because >>>> of all the misinformation out there, particularly the notion >>>> that DevOps was about developers running >>>> operations/production and that it was tied up in all these >>>> specific Agile tools (jenkins, docker, openstack) or methods >>>> (scrum, sprints, XP). Reading this book and doing a little >>>> more research over the weekend, I've started to gain an >>>> understanding of the underlying DevOps philosophy. >>>> >>>> I really like an old blog post by John Willis >>>> (https://www.chef.io/blog/2010/07/16/what-devops-means-to-me/) >>>> I found that, similar to the book, gets to the heart of the >>>> philosophy rather than getting tied up in specific methods, >>>> practices, or tools. He breaks it down in to CAMS - >>>> Culture, Automating, Measuring, Sharing. I would almost >>>> suggest that you could change that to just CAM - Culture (of >>>> Collaborating and Sharing), Automating, and Measuring. To >>>> many of us, the DevOps philosophy isn't new, it's things >>>> we've tried to do all along but may not have had the backing >>>> or the state of the technology and tools didn't allow for >>>> it. >>>> >>>> A lot of people, when talking about DevOps and culture, talk >>>> about collapsing silos as if that means you have to get rid >>>> of traditional teams ("you can't have a network team and a >>>> storage team and an OS team - they all have to be one"), but >>>> it isn't that. It's collapsing barriers that stop teams from >>>> working with each other - territory building, rigid >>>> processes, the blame game - and embracing flexibility that >>>> allow for that collaborating and sharing. They talk about >>>> getting rid of traditional project management (it's all >>>> Agile), but I believe there's still a need for some >>>> traditional project management. >>>> >>>> I was interviewing with someone a few weeks ago and they >>>> asked me about my project management style (even though I'm >>>> not a project manager, they were expecting some project >>>> management out of the leadership role I was looking at). >>>> They asked me whether I was more of a traditionalist/control >>>> PM or more of a collaboration person (I believe they were >>>> thinking about Agile methodologies). I expressed some >>>> confusion, because I didn't see the specific distinction >>>> between the two. I said that no matter what you were doing, >>>> you always knew there were certain project phases and tasks >>>> that needed to be rigidly tracked while sub-tasks and >>>> individual steps could be done without such rigor. I said you >>>> may spend some time up front collaborating to make sure >>>> everyone agreed on the phases and tasks, but eventually I (if >>>> I was managing the operation) would have to ensure they were >>>> done. >>>> >>>> Automation and self-service is nothing new for any of us >>>> either. I was setting up automated build systems and >>>> allowing people to re-image desktops and workstations back in >>>> the early '90s. Before Sun's Jumpstart was developed, we >>>> combined network boot with a bunch of back-end tools and >>>> scripts (like swdepot) that allowed us to re-build our lab >>>> every semester and fairly simply rebuild broken or new >>>> systems. When I moved on to a FT job at a software >>>> development company, I used similar technologies (including >>>> Jumpstart, which was then available) to allow the QA team to >>>> rebuild their QA systems whenever they needed. What we didn't >>>> have then was the ability to create virtual machines (no >>>> VMware, no Zones, no Containers) that would allow for >>>> self-service of entirely new environments (we still had to go >>>> through budgeting and procurement to get the hardware, there >>>> were many pieces that still required manual work like >>>> racking/stacking, networking, storage, etc). Over time, we've >>>> gotten those tools (along with deployment management, >>>> configuration management, systems monitoring, capacity >>>> management) and capabilities (networking, security, storage, >>>> and others) that are now allowing some of these older ideas >>>> to come to fruition. Even more recently, we're finally >>>> starting to get the final pieces that were needed. In >>>> particular, we're starting to get real policy and governance >>>> tools that enable safe and secure self-service. >>>> >>>> -spp >>>> >>>> On 6/17/2015 2:14 AM, Joseph Kern wrote: >>>>>> Surprisingly, it isn't that difficult to learn as much as >>>>>> you >>>>> need. Yes, there's a lot about business you can learn, but >>>>> you really don't need to learn that much of it. I got an >>>>> MBA several years ago, but honestly, I could have read a >>>>> basic accounting/financing textbook, a basic management >>>>> textbook, and a basic business law textbook and gotten >>>>> pretty much everything I've used since then. Most of what >>>>> you need to understand is the basics, the terminology, and >>>>> some of the newer buzzwords. >>>>> >>>>> Well now that you've put yourself out there ... which books >>>>> would you recommend? >>>>> >>>>> I have read the Phoenix Project, and loved the book. >>>>> Started reading The Goal (the book that Phoenix Project >>>>> based itself off of), and find myself wanting more. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Stephen Potter >>>>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Surprisingly, it isn't that difficult to learn as much as >>>>> you need. Yes, there's a lot about business you can learn, >>>>> but you really don't need to learn that much of it. I got >>>>> an MBA several years ago, but honestly, I could have read a >>>>> basic accounting/financing textbook, a basic management >>>>> textbook, and a basic business law textbook and gotten >>>>> pretty much everything I've used since then. Most of what >>>>> you need to understand is the basics, the terminology, and >>>>> some of the newer buzzwords. >>>>> >>>>> Once you've got that, you just need to be willing to listen >>>>> to people and ask a few questions. And, quite often, the >>>>> questions you have to ask are "what would it mean if...." >>>>> or "how could you see that happening" when someone tells >>>>> you something; just turning their question around on them >>>>> to get more information. It is amazing how people can see >>>>> 90% of a solution, but miss the last step. And, if you can >>>>> provide the last step, you're a genius, even when it is >>>>> something really simple. I once - many years ago - got a >>>>> $500 bonus (from a director) because I was willing to ask >>>>> him if I could move an external disk from one machine in >>>>> one town to another machine in another town and explain to >>>>> him how it related to his business (when one system ran out >>>>> of disk space, it killed one or more long running jobs that >>>>> cost several hundred dollars in lost productivity each). >>>>> I was in my early-20s then, and simply a contractor who >>>>> didn't know any better than to ask! >>>>> >>>>> -spp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 6/16/2015 2:50 PM, Atom Powers wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 million. I wish I had the time to learn that skill. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 11:13 Stephen Potter >>>>>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Several others have already mentioned that it sounds >>>>>> like there's management problems at several levels and >>>>>> titles won't help. Some have mentioned the split >>>>>> management/technical track with management roles such as >>>>>> Lead, Supervising, Managing, etc and technical >>>>>> advancement through Distinguished, Principal, Fellow, etc >>>>>> titles. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I see as the underlying problem is that no one has >>>>>> been able to relate what IT does to the business goals >>>>>> and values to help the executives really understand where >>>>>> IT fits. You mention that IT falls under the VP of >>>>>> Administration, which generally contains groups like real >>>>>> estate, facilities, logistics, HR, and perhaps regulatory >>>>>> compliance. This is all just overhead and costs of doing >>>>>> business. None of these have anything to do with revenue >>>>>> and enabling the business. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you really want IT to start to get some respect, you >>>>>> need to have someone who can talk the language of the >>>>>> executives and tie their goals into what IT can provide. >>>>>> Business will talk about market share >>>>>> (acquiring/retaining customers), competitive >>>>>> differentiation, business innovation, and profitability. >>>>>> You need someone who can take those and show how IT can >>>>>> help develop multichannel (buzzword: omni-channel) >>>>>> services that provide competitive differentiation and >>>>>> attract new customers. Someone needs to talk about >>>>>> continuous delivery of IT services that enable other >>>>>> business units (R&D, sales, etc) to change the way they >>>>>> do business (mobility, supply chain management, etc) and >>>>>> speed up sales (buzzword: "inventory turn", "sales close >>>>>> cycle") or even enable entirely new products and >>>>>> services (buzzword: "time to market", "go-to-market >>>>>> strategy"). And, finally, you need to be able to show how >>>>>> IT can help reduce costs across the entire company (not >>>>>> just reducing IT costs), reducing SG&A (sales, general, >>>>>> and administration), and how the other things I've >>>>>> already mentioned can reduce unit costs (development >>>>>> cycle, manufacturing costs, etc). >>>>>> >>>>>> A couple of examples I can think of, which wouldn't >>>>>> necessarily be relevant to your specific company. One >>>>>> large fashion retailer I worked with used to ship store >>>>>> layout, discount information and sales reports to each of >>>>>> its several thousand stores weekly. They were spending >>>>>> hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on FedEx >>>>>> shipping alone. IT was able to work with the store >>>>>> operations teams to figure out how all that information >>>>>> could be safely shared through remote access across the >>>>>> network. The savings to the company was millions per >>>>>> year. >>>>>> >>>>>> Another company had dozens of desktops in their >>>>>> distribution facility where product pickers went to print >>>>>> off pick lists for packaging and shipping. The >>>>>> conditions in the DF were such that the desktops and >>>>>> printers crashed regularly, requiring pickers to search >>>>>> for a working desktop/printer combination, and slowing >>>>>> them down. IT had a person onsite in the DF full time, >>>>>> just to handle desktop/printer issues. Orders were >>>>>> batched every couple of hours, so there were often times >>>>>> when the pickers had nothing to do. IT was able to work >>>>>> with distribution to come up with a combination of >>>>>> thin-clients, touch screens, and tablets that enabled >>>>>> more real time access to the lists, reduced errors, >>>>>> reduced outages (to the point they pulled the IT guy back >>>>>> to the office and redeployed him to do higher value >>>>>> activities), and reduced costs. It also enabled the >>>>>> distribution to collect efficiency data, which >>>>>> subsequently led to re-arranging how products were stored >>>>>> in the DF. >>>>>> >>>>>> In order for IT to get respect in many companies, there >>>>>> needs to be a strong leader who can tie IT to the >>>>>> business, rather than just being another SG&A cost. >>>>>> >>>>>> -spp >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/9/2015 9:52 AM, Tim Kirby wrote: >>>>>>> I'm not sure if this is actually a repeat of past >>>>>>> threads, we spend a lot of time talking about this sort >>>>>>> of thing within "IT organizations" but I'm not sure >>>>>>> I've seen this one. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> $WORK is a computer system manufacturer. Thus it is >>>>>>> largely technical with an R&D component building >>>>>>> software and hardware. Within our IT organization we >>>>>>> have two or three highly experienced >>>>>>> sysadmin/devop/engineer types that could hold their own >>>>>>> against any of the R&D "Principal Engineers" and do, at >>>>>>> time, consult for R&D. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The politics and handling of "IT" is every bit as >>>>>>> dysfunctional as you might expect, however, and the >>>>>>> job titles and "official status" of these IT guys make >>>>>>> them almost indistinguishable from a front line help >>>>>>> desk tech (no, I'm not dissing the help desk tech, >>>>>>> don't go there). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am interested in hearing from anyone who works with >>>>>>> or has worked with companies that have actually >>>>>>> recognized such senior folks within their >>>>>>> organizations. One term I've heard the term "IT >>>>>>> Fellow", but I'm really not hung up on the name so much >>>>>>> as the perceived role within the company and how such >>>>>>> people might appear in the company ranks. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I suppose I should add that the "VP of Administration" >>>>>>> who is the ersatz CIO (in terms of corporate position) >>>>>>> denies all CIO responsibility, indicating that the >>>>>>> Director of IT, his immediate report, has all IT >>>>>>> responsibility. There is an "Office if the CTO", I >>>>>>> don't know if it would be possible to hang these highly >>>>>>> senior IT people off that instead. I do realize that >>>>>>> the de-emphasis of IT at the VP level probably means >>>>>>> we're all screwed. Sigh. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for any input... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tim >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Discuss >>>>>> mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>> This list provided by the League of Professional System >>>>>> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Discuss >>>>> mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> This list provided by the League of Professional System >>>>> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Joseph A Kern [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Discuss >>>> mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This >>>> list provided by the League of Professional System >>>> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ >>>> > >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing >> list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This >> list provided by the League of Professional System >> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ >> > > "The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot > do." - Walter Bagehot - -- I prefer to use encrypted mail. My public key fingerprint is FD6A 6990 F035 DE9E 3713 B4F1 661B 3AD6 D82A BBD0. You can download it at http://www.megacity.org/gpg_dballing.txt Learn how to encrypt your email with the E-Mail Self Defense Guide: https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0 Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJViC65AAoJEGYbOtbYKrvQEt0P/jKXan4cGS5kX5pfdnsOkuzk v6ZlFkGVVSr6DQ/vtdSYqI7ZIwbaIvCuL45mBV0IdRR19arzjKPU8izpGzhg+ecs byg48sLFw160ro3eCGHxY+uW7t4fLnLPBvKGL0BBaRZGjH9qZSMoVTRiX6nBez4M Mlz5uCthXwiAGjZ1KqSt2S7UiLRqHjOFnQA4tkM504HV3xX65cuP6UpXXPFhUdOs jGIDBdoAsu+g6pM6h8cwsKvJh+HTLsT24azxPSc8+EV4ID50SmpCydRIGh9mX5zp 0Scppqdh6qp2uv+PY/2l/O53pJn3qF3Cz2JP9sBvmWyt83CHGMjyB9u8DaaESMCf ywxE7fIurZRNU/qRcC7VdIzdsp2y53msB87tA0mpQck4Prsc94AxI45LAHjKbfKX sazD2l7yWN4qr/nEpj3crPHUHEJ1Lbrb6oMTSy5/cbLmWEmohTzBq9x0haT5OIOV DdMDoU6cCeJrcmkIauiDn/dNYNabhnIFb4Ah6f8zItvUzTUo8wIP0F6UTU65T+da 2+erPOm9S63lKUjwjR6l/DCLein6pCD12xxYfdipJEqSCGLGYsTdmMs/P6SKUkXV qyOFPFH9cpdtuUu98gIaI2kdzgn8K083XJ1DvU63hAFkqCewJ0dMsusHzTtg4nP+ yxUOgGeWbOcx7mb9+blh =AhJu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/ -- Joseph A Kern [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/ _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
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