Sounds like a Phoenix Project BoF session needs to happen at the next LISA.
:-) Thanks for all the great recommendations. I have quite a reading list ahead of me! On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 8:20 PM, Derek J. Balling <[email protected]> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > LISA absolutely has been preaching it. USENIX the organization "gets > it", but my take from the community is that the community writ-large > does not. > > I think USENIX/LISA is doing a noble job of trying to jam DevOps into > the hearts-and-minds of attendees, but I hear a LOT of folks, over and > over again, rejecting it out of hand. > > Talking to other attendees, I get a sense that "newcomers" to LISA are > accepting of it, because they haven't been tainted by their fellow > attendees' biases yet, but the long-time attendees (who are, for good > or ill, the movers and shakers of the conference) are too entrenched > in their beliefs to make substantial change. > > So yes, thanks for clarifying that bit, because I do think it's > important to differentiate between the community-at-large and the > leadership in charge of setting programs. > > D > > > > On 6/22/2015 11:42 AM, Chris Snell wrote: > > I actually beg to differ on the feeling from LISA. LISA since I've > > been attending (~2009) has been preaching the DevOps culture > > pretty significantly, almost to the point of being repetitive year > > after year so much that I've considered not going for a few years. > > > > I will second/third the recommendation of Phoenix Project. I > > managed to get a free copy (and a free Kindle copy), and couldn't > > put the book down; it's a very easy read. I keep loaning out my > > physical copy to folks at $WORK, trying to bring others out of the > > stone age :). > > > > - Chris > > > > On Mon, 22 Jun 2015, Derek J. Balling wrote: > > > > I just want to chime in and "+1" this entire post, because it > > parallels a mental journey I've been going through the last few > > weeks. > > > > This past year, I attended LISA, a day of Velocity-NY, and all of > > Velocity-CA, and came away from Velocity feeling like it was a > > culture that was forward-looking, collaborative, diverse, embracing > > new ideas, while LISA was (with a few notable exceptions) > > chock-a-block full of angry old white dudes (including to some part > > myself, admittedly), stuck in the past, and seemed to want to shout > > at the DevOps folks to get off their lawn. > > > > I say this only because it caused me to deeply re-examine what > > culture *I* wanted to be a part of, and -- like Stephen -- I had > > almost no exposure to a really quality DevOps environment > > first-hand, so my perspective was tainted by years of exposure to a > > community which seemed more interested in shunning "those upstart > > kids" than embracing them. I picked up Phoenix Project (on several > > people's recommendation) and it's next in line to be read after I > > finish TAL's new Cloud book. > > > > I watched a video that gave me a lot of clarity around the varying > > DevOps "meanings" to different people, and figured I would share it > > as part of this discussion. I'll freely admit, Stephen's post is > > the first in this thread that I've read start to finish, so if > > someone else already posted this, well, shoot me. :-P > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DEToXsgrPc > > > > It's longish (hour-plus) so download it and watch it somewhere > > comfortable. You won't regret it. > > > > D > > > > > > > > On 6/22/2015 11:12 AM, Stephen Potter wrote: > >>>> Over the weekend, I also read "The Phoenix Project" > >>>> (http://www.amazon.com/Phoenix-Project-DevOps-Helping-Business/dp/0 > 988 > > > >>>> > 262509/). > >>>> DevOps has become a huge buzzword recently, and several > >>>> colleagues had been recommending this book. > >>>> > >>>> I admit, I had been resisting studying up on DevOps because > >>>> of all the misinformation out there, particularly the notion > >>>> that DevOps was about developers running > >>>> operations/production and that it was tied up in all these > >>>> specific Agile tools (jenkins, docker, openstack) or methods > >>>> (scrum, sprints, XP). Reading this book and doing a little > >>>> more research over the weekend, I've started to gain an > >>>> understanding of the underlying DevOps philosophy. > >>>> > >>>> I really like an old blog post by John Willis > >>>> (https://www.chef.io/blog/2010/07/16/what-devops-means-to-me/) > >>>> I found that, similar to the book, gets to the heart of the > >>>> philosophy rather than getting tied up in specific methods, > >>>> practices, or tools. He breaks it down in to CAMS - > >>>> Culture, Automating, Measuring, Sharing. I would almost > >>>> suggest that you could change that to just CAM - Culture (of > >>>> Collaborating and Sharing), Automating, and Measuring. To > >>>> many of us, the DevOps philosophy isn't new, it's things > >>>> we've tried to do all along but may not have had the backing > >>>> or the state of the technology and tools didn't allow for > >>>> it. > >>>> > >>>> A lot of people, when talking about DevOps and culture, talk > >>>> about collapsing silos as if that means you have to get rid > >>>> of traditional teams ("you can't have a network team and a > >>>> storage team and an OS team - they all have to be one"), but > >>>> it isn't that. It's collapsing barriers that stop teams from > >>>> working with each other - territory building, rigid > >>>> processes, the blame game - and embracing flexibility that > >>>> allow for that collaborating and sharing. They talk about > >>>> getting rid of traditional project management (it's all > >>>> Agile), but I believe there's still a need for some > >>>> traditional project management. > >>>> > >>>> I was interviewing with someone a few weeks ago and they > >>>> asked me about my project management style (even though I'm > >>>> not a project manager, they were expecting some project > >>>> management out of the leadership role I was looking at). > >>>> They asked me whether I was more of a traditionalist/control > >>>> PM or more of a collaboration person (I believe they were > >>>> thinking about Agile methodologies). I expressed some > >>>> confusion, because I didn't see the specific distinction > >>>> between the two. I said that no matter what you were doing, > >>>> you always knew there were certain project phases and tasks > >>>> that needed to be rigidly tracked while sub-tasks and > >>>> individual steps could be done without such rigor. I said you > >>>> may spend some time up front collaborating to make sure > >>>> everyone agreed on the phases and tasks, but eventually I (if > >>>> I was managing the operation) would have to ensure they were > >>>> done. > >>>> > >>>> Automation and self-service is nothing new for any of us > >>>> either. I was setting up automated build systems and > >>>> allowing people to re-image desktops and workstations back in > >>>> the early '90s. Before Sun's Jumpstart was developed, we > >>>> combined network boot with a bunch of back-end tools and > >>>> scripts (like swdepot) that allowed us to re-build our lab > >>>> every semester and fairly simply rebuild broken or new > >>>> systems. When I moved on to a FT job at a software > >>>> development company, I used similar technologies (including > >>>> Jumpstart, which was then available) to allow the QA team to > >>>> rebuild their QA systems whenever they needed. What we didn't > >>>> have then was the ability to create virtual machines (no > >>>> VMware, no Zones, no Containers) that would allow for > >>>> self-service of entirely new environments (we still had to go > >>>> through budgeting and procurement to get the hardware, there > >>>> were many pieces that still required manual work like > >>>> racking/stacking, networking, storage, etc). Over time, we've > >>>> gotten those tools (along with deployment management, > >>>> configuration management, systems monitoring, capacity > >>>> management) and capabilities (networking, security, storage, > >>>> and others) that are now allowing some of these older ideas > >>>> to come to fruition. Even more recently, we're finally > >>>> starting to get the final pieces that were needed. In > >>>> particular, we're starting to get real policy and governance > >>>> tools that enable safe and secure self-service. > >>>> > >>>> -spp > >>>> > >>>> On 6/17/2015 2:14 AM, Joseph Kern wrote: > >>>>>> Surprisingly, it isn't that difficult to learn as much as > >>>>>> you > >>>>> need. Yes, there's a lot about business you can learn, but > >>>>> you really don't need to learn that much of it. I got an > >>>>> MBA several years ago, but honestly, I could have read a > >>>>> basic accounting/financing textbook, a basic management > >>>>> textbook, and a basic business law textbook and gotten > >>>>> pretty much everything I've used since then. Most of what > >>>>> you need to understand is the basics, the terminology, and > >>>>> some of the newer buzzwords. > >>>>> > >>>>> Well now that you've put yourself out there ... which books > >>>>> would you recommend? > >>>>> > >>>>> I have read the Phoenix Project, and loved the book. > >>>>> Started reading The Goal (the book that Phoenix Project > >>>>> based itself off of), and find myself wanting more. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 1:51 AM, Stephen Potter > >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Surprisingly, it isn't that difficult to learn as much as > >>>>> you need. Yes, there's a lot about business you can learn, > >>>>> but you really don't need to learn that much of it. I got > >>>>> an MBA several years ago, but honestly, I could have read a > >>>>> basic accounting/financing textbook, a basic management > >>>>> textbook, and a basic business law textbook and gotten > >>>>> pretty much everything I've used since then. Most of what > >>>>> you need to understand is the basics, the terminology, and > >>>>> some of the newer buzzwords. > >>>>> > >>>>> Once you've got that, you just need to be willing to listen > >>>>> to people and ask a few questions. And, quite often, the > >>>>> questions you have to ask are "what would it mean if...." > >>>>> or "how could you see that happening" when someone tells > >>>>> you something; just turning their question around on them > >>>>> to get more information. It is amazing how people can see > >>>>> 90% of a solution, but miss the last step. And, if you can > >>>>> provide the last step, you're a genius, even when it is > >>>>> something really simple. I once - many years ago - got a > >>>>> $500 bonus (from a director) because I was willing to ask > >>>>> him if I could move an external disk from one machine in > >>>>> one town to another machine in another town and explain to > >>>>> him how it related to his business (when one system ran out > >>>>> of disk space, it killed one or more long running jobs that > >>>>> cost several hundred dollars in lost productivity each). > >>>>> I was in my early-20s then, and simply a contractor who > >>>>> didn't know any better than to ask! > >>>>> > >>>>> -spp > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 6/16/2015 2:50 PM, Atom Powers wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> +1 million. I wish I had the time to learn that skill. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 11:13 Stephen Potter > >>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Several others have already mentioned that it sounds > >>>>>> like there's management problems at several levels and > >>>>>> titles won't help. Some have mentioned the split > >>>>>> management/technical track with management roles such as > >>>>>> Lead, Supervising, Managing, etc and technical > >>>>>> advancement through Distinguished, Principal, Fellow, etc > >>>>>> titles. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> What I see as the underlying problem is that no one has > >>>>>> been able to relate what IT does to the business goals > >>>>>> and values to help the executives really understand where > >>>>>> IT fits. You mention that IT falls under the VP of > >>>>>> Administration, which generally contains groups like real > >>>>>> estate, facilities, logistics, HR, and perhaps regulatory > >>>>>> compliance. This is all just overhead and costs of doing > >>>>>> business. None of these have anything to do with revenue > >>>>>> and enabling the business. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you really want IT to start to get some respect, you > >>>>>> need to have someone who can talk the language of the > >>>>>> executives and tie their goals into what IT can provide. > >>>>>> Business will talk about market share > >>>>>> (acquiring/retaining customers), competitive > >>>>>> differentiation, business innovation, and profitability. > >>>>>> You need someone who can take those and show how IT can > >>>>>> help develop multichannel (buzzword: omni-channel) > >>>>>> services that provide competitive differentiation and > >>>>>> attract new customers. Someone needs to talk about > >>>>>> continuous delivery of IT services that enable other > >>>>>> business units (R&D, sales, etc) to change the way they > >>>>>> do business (mobility, supply chain management, etc) and > >>>>>> speed up sales (buzzword: "inventory turn", "sales close > >>>>>> cycle") or even enable entirely new products and > >>>>>> services (buzzword: "time to market", "go-to-market > >>>>>> strategy"). And, finally, you need to be able to show how > >>>>>> IT can help reduce costs across the entire company (not > >>>>>> just reducing IT costs), reducing SG&A (sales, general, > >>>>>> and administration), and how the other things I've > >>>>>> already mentioned can reduce unit costs (development > >>>>>> cycle, manufacturing costs, etc). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> A couple of examples I can think of, which wouldn't > >>>>>> necessarily be relevant to your specific company. One > >>>>>> large fashion retailer I worked with used to ship store > >>>>>> layout, discount information and sales reports to each of > >>>>>> its several thousand stores weekly. They were spending > >>>>>> hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on FedEx > >>>>>> shipping alone. IT was able to work with the store > >>>>>> operations teams to figure out how all that information > >>>>>> could be safely shared through remote access across the > >>>>>> network. The savings to the company was millions per > >>>>>> year. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another company had dozens of desktops in their > >>>>>> distribution facility where product pickers went to print > >>>>>> off pick lists for packaging and shipping. The > >>>>>> conditions in the DF were such that the desktops and > >>>>>> printers crashed regularly, requiring pickers to search > >>>>>> for a working desktop/printer combination, and slowing > >>>>>> them down. IT had a person onsite in the DF full time, > >>>>>> just to handle desktop/printer issues. Orders were > >>>>>> batched every couple of hours, so there were often times > >>>>>> when the pickers had nothing to do. IT was able to work > >>>>>> with distribution to come up with a combination of > >>>>>> thin-clients, touch screens, and tablets that enabled > >>>>>> more real time access to the lists, reduced errors, > >>>>>> reduced outages (to the point they pulled the IT guy back > >>>>>> to the office and redeployed him to do higher value > >>>>>> activities), and reduced costs. It also enabled the > >>>>>> distribution to collect efficiency data, which > >>>>>> subsequently led to re-arranging how products were stored > >>>>>> in the DF. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> In order for IT to get respect in many companies, there > >>>>>> needs to be a strong leader who can tie IT to the > >>>>>> business, rather than just being another SG&A cost. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -spp > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 6/9/2015 9:52 AM, Tim Kirby wrote: > >>>>>>> I'm not sure if this is actually a repeat of past > >>>>>>> threads, we spend a lot of time talking about this sort > >>>>>>> of thing within "IT organizations" but I'm not sure > >>>>>>> I've seen this one. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> $WORK is a computer system manufacturer. Thus it is > >>>>>>> largely technical with an R&D component building > >>>>>>> software and hardware. Within our IT organization we > >>>>>>> have two or three highly experienced > >>>>>>> sysadmin/devop/engineer types that could hold their own > >>>>>>> against any of the R&D "Principal Engineers" and do, at > >>>>>>> time, consult for R&D. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The politics and handling of "IT" is every bit as > >>>>>>> dysfunctional as you might expect, however, and the > >>>>>>> job titles and "official status" of these IT guys make > >>>>>>> them almost indistinguishable from a front line help > >>>>>>> desk tech (no, I'm not dissing the help desk tech, > >>>>>>> don't go there). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am interested in hearing from anyone who works with > >>>>>>> or has worked with companies that have actually > >>>>>>> recognized such senior folks within their > >>>>>>> organizations. One term I've heard the term "IT > >>>>>>> Fellow", but I'm really not hung up on the name so much > >>>>>>> as the perceived role within the company and how such > >>>>>>> people might appear in the company ranks. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I suppose I should add that the "VP of Administration" > >>>>>>> who is the ersatz CIO (in terms of corporate position) > >>>>>>> denies all CIO responsibility, indicating that the > >>>>>>> Director of IT, his immediate report, has all IT > >>>>>>> responsibility. There is an "Office if the CTO", I > >>>>>>> don't know if it would be possible to hang these highly > >>>>>>> senior IT people off that instead. I do realize that > >>>>>>> the de-emphasis of IT at the VP level probably means > >>>>>>> we're all screwed. Sigh. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks for any input... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Tim > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ Discuss > >>>>>> mailing list [email protected] > >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>>>>> This list provided by the League of Professional System > >>>>>> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ Discuss > >>>>> mailing list [email protected] > >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>>>> This list provided by the League of Professional System > >>>>> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Joseph A Kern [email protected] > >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ Discuss > >>>> mailing list [email protected] > >>>> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This > >>>> list provided by the League of Professional System > >>>> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ > >>>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing > >> list [email protected] > >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This > >> list provided by the League of Professional System > >> Administrators http://lopsa.org/ > >> > > > > "The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot > > do." - Walter Bagehot > > - -- > I prefer to use encrypted mail. My public key fingerprint is FD6A 6990 > F035 DE9E 3713 B4F1 661B 3AD6 D82A BBD0. 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