Oh... this discussion is getting so emotional and personal... Most of what is written here (in this thread, not this posting) is imho about personal taste, or misunderstandings. But not facts. I'll have to add my _opinion_, too.

But the web is so last century.

So what's today?

2 are used for corner-case hardware (Touch and Handheld),

But I think Handheld is pretty widely used. The fact that you can't see a lot about it in the forums might be due to its simple design: (almost) no javascript, frames, cookies or CSS guarantee for the best possible compatibility with the sometimes very limited browsers on those movile devices. We therefore don't have the hassles with Handheld kdf has to fight with in Fishbone. It's simplicity by design (Handheld's creator originally called it "Slimple" or something :-)).

then most users use Default, ExBrowse, or Fishbone.

This is your assumption - and I'd really like to know better. I once wanted to start a poll about it - excluding Default and Fishbone as I'm assuming them to be top 2 anyway :-)

Fishbone is the most ergonomic and pleasant to work with,

Now it's getting personal (about my taste, not about kdf's ;-)): I don't like Fishbone. What's ergonomic about it? The default color set is depressing (me). It's too cluttered (for me). And I don't like the buttons. Yes, _I_ don't like it. I don't say it is ugly.

Default is not very nice-looking

I love Default for it's simple and clean layout. Call me a purist. But I don't need fancy, colorful skins. The colors are decent, not hurting my eyes. In fact, I was searching for a nice web interface to manage my music collection, when I first found out about slimdevices. Coming from Netjuke I just loved that nicely looking Default skin - and stick with it since. SlimDevices got an enthusiastic customer thanks to the Default skin. That's my story :-)


and desparately needs a jump toolbar instead of a breadcrumb trail,

I can't comment on this one as I don't understand... What's a "jump toolbar"?

I'd also like a
robust telnet CLI that makes it easy for anyone to write a native interface
in any language they like for any platform they like.

What's wrong about the current CLI. I think it's (almost) all there. I wouldn't call my SlimRemote the sexiest app on earth, but it does imho demonstrate a lot that can be done with the current CLI, even on handheld devices.

And then I wanted to comment on the Flash discussion... but that was in the old thread. Have missed that one. I'd just add that Flash doesn't have to be as bad as its calling. I'm sure even Michael (Wagner) has used some Flash he didn't dislike. And he didn't notice, because it was _good_ design and good Flash usage. Good design and usage of a tool is when you don't notice it.

--

Michael

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