Chad Smith wrote: ...
This, IMO, was accepted without a whole lot of thought put into it. :(
I've seen you and maybe one other person who claim to miss this "feature". I don't think it is widely desired. I mean, how hard is it to remember you were on page 15 or even page 147?
i don't think that there is a reason to discuss this. from this sentence it seems that you have never edited a lot of documents in a given timeframe ar their content was so menaningless that you had to check now and then current page just to not get bored (no offence ;) )
what i mean is, this was a really good feature, _which was an option_ and an easily changeable one. i am really used to it and it helps to improve my productivity. if it's not the case for you, don't dismiss it.
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Then I guess those of us who use OOo and expect it to return where we left it are screwed.
Pretty much, yes. Although I'd change it to "Those of us who use OOo and want it to return to where we left are screwed". I use OOo and want it to return to the top. In every choice in design for a given program, some will enjoy it, some will - in your words get screwed. I think we
umm. and you believe that by removing that choice screwup is smaller than by leaving it there so that everybody can easily change that preference ?
should try to screw the least number of people. And removing - YES "removing"- some options - actually a heck of a lot of options - will help more people than it screws. I'm for the Firefox model all the way!
that's nice, i believe, most people here agree that something must be done to simplify ui for average users. the problem is, i haven't seen any detailed info/plan on how to achieve this without screwing somebody.
i'd like to ask for additional input (and votes ? :) ) to issue
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=41251
once we have a clear target we can start splitting up parameters in beginner/advanced/[expert], if the decision is to go with config files, some easily accessible format and location should be chosen, _every_ possible option clearly documented.
there should be no option removed until such a system is implemented - in the opposite case it will result in frantic searching for info on the web, then asking in mailing ilsts - and hoping that somebody who knows the correct parameter, it's location and syntax will answer. then you must hope that you will be able to understand directions (because some files might change location, some might be compressed, some might have their syntax changed) and not screw up everything even more.
i would feel really fscked up if this particular option would be hastily removed and overall i believe that simply removing these options would be unreasoned.
i'm excited about oo.org 2.0, but major intended regressions don't fall into cathegory 'improvements'.
If I opened a document and it jumped to the 3rd word in the 4th sentence of the 2nd paragraph on page 157 of chapter 6 - I'd be a little concerned. I'd think it was a bug - like it didn't shut down properly or something.
This makes sense, I guess, if you are receiving a doc from a friend or something, but if you are editing it yourself and want to go back to where you left, wouldn't it be nice to be returned there?
No, not really. I mean, I tend to try to finish up a thought before I save and quit. So, when I come back, I usually have a pretty good idea of where I was, and then just scroll down, or page down, to the area, and start where it looks most familiar. I try to make it easy on myself by at least finishing off a paragraph, if not a page or section, so coming back isn't that big a deal.
don't you see ? this is _your_ preference, _your_ working style. and you have the choice to change that behaviour. insted you want to decide how everybody should work and remove that chance for them.
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Not useless.
It helps get the job done for editing big docs.
Again, I just remember where I was. If I can't tell by reading something in the general area where I have edited and where I haven't - putting a cursor at the last place I was isn't going to help. I mean, what if the last thing I did was scroll down to see how much I had left in the section? My cursor would be there - not where I left off editing. Even with this supposed "feature" I would still have to
jsut nitpicking ;) - no. if you would _scroll_, either by using mousewheel or scrollbar, your cursor would stay at the same location.
remember where I was. I really think this thing is not nearly as important as you think it is. Maybe it is to you - but you are one user out of several million. Most users - from what I can tell - would prefer to have to start at the top. And I base that on this thread being basically a one-man crusade, and on the fact that every other
i don't think you should try to derogate this.
1. i counted more persons who have expressed their preference in favor of remembering position ;)
2. have you asked those millions wether they would like to restart their work or start from the top ? have they tried using such a feature ?
actually, this is a thing that might be a catalyst - what about creating a short survey that asks questions about some of possible near future changes - and present this survey to users who go to 'register' page ?. this would allow them to think about the questions and answer understanding what has been asked. additionally, of course, a link must be available if a user would like to take a longer survey.
in this scenario we might have data about user knowledge and preference regarding this feature.
program I've ever used starts me at the top. If everybody else is doing it, there is probably a reason, and the reason is, that's what people expect, and that's what they want. If one or two people get screwed by that, I'm sorry, but choices must be made, and this one obviously has.
i like how mathias put this...
"We have too many configuration settings and we should remove some of them, but we shouldn't start with the useful ones."
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Then you should have a choice. Or use the url bar that was standard in 1.1.x and is an option in 2.0. It is the little bar next to the New button that lists the file name.
You can also open recent docs from it.
OOo has way too many choices already. Look at Firefox, Mozilla's been around for years, and it can do a lot more than Firefox, but it wasn't until Ff came out, with its cleaner interface *AND* far few options that people sat up and took notice. We have people on the list that are constantly harping on elegance of design and getting more with less - this is one example where the programmers of OOo are setting out to do that, and I am completely behind them 100%!
i'd like to ask a second time : don't cut things out until we have understanding about a way to make them available for those who wish them.
BTW, I used OOo for a *long* time before I knew what the URL bar *was* much less how to use it. I'm glad it's gone. I wish they hadn't have left it as an option, because that's just one more pointless check-box in the dialog menus....
well, i disliked it at first, but i started to get used to it and even used it sometimes later (it took me more than year, though...). and you could remove it with two clicks.
and this _again_ is a case when you are not satisfied that this is removed as a default but left as a choice for those users who liked it. in this case at least the choice isn't removed, it's only slightly hidden.
-Chad Smith
-- Rich
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