On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 23:27 +0100, Sander Vesik wrote:
> --- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > In practice I have never inadvertently installed a virus even though I
> > get a lot of mail including quite a lot of spam. I have on occasion
> > deleted a good mail I shouldn't have. It seems pretty obvious from the
> > sources which is good and which is probably bad. If in doubt I check it
> > out. On linux the default is generally to make you put in the root
> > password before doing anything that might be remotely dangerous. It can
> > be a slight irritation at times but on balance that is probably a price
> > worth paying to have a virus free machine and not have to shell out on
> > anti-virus software.
> > 
> 
> The problem is that this is fundamentaly untrue. 

You mean its fundamentally untrue that I have never inadvertently
installed a virus? I can assure you it isn't. You mean its fundamentally
untrue that I have to put in the root password before doing potentially
dangerous operations eg installing something that could be a virus? I
assure you it isn't. You mean I don't have a virus free Ubuntu system
without any anti-virus software? I assure it isn't. My XP laptop
connected to the same broadband internet is also virus free but
protected by anti-virus software which I do not have the confidence to
remove to see how long it will last without getting infected and while I
am careful with E-mail attachments it would be relatively easier to
install a virus on my XP machine than on my Linux one.

> By the way, all that is needed to
> get to that root password you are typing is being able to execute code... say 
> via
> some remotely exploitable hole.

Then I assume there aren't any of any significance in the distros I'm
using because it practise its never happened in over 4 years of
continuous use. I never said anything above about being perfectly
secure. I said the system of having to supply a password before
potentially dangerous operations is better than not having to do it even
though it is at time a little inconvenient.

> There is no security if there is a remotely explotable bug ... 

I agree there is no such thing as absolute certainty in anything. There
are some things though that are significantly better than others. I
don't believe in perfection, I believe in situation a being better than
situation b. Acceptable and unacceptable levels of risk. All the
empirical evidence is that the Ubuntu system I am running here and
Mandrake before that are significantly more secure than any of the
Windows systems I have dealt with. Forget complex technical reasons, its
simply a matter of fact based on running two systems in a like for like
environment for several years. Oh yes there are more Windows machines
out there but there are more Linux machines than Acorn machines and
there were far more Acorn viruses and in common with Windows these
machines allowed ordinary users to install programs. So I would conclude
that having to supply a root password to install software (also the fact
that most software updates come directly from a known maintained
repository) contributes to the fact that my Linux box is a lot less
vulnerable to viruses than my Windows machine. Not perfect, better. If
there is a different reason as a user, I don't really care. The outcome
is what is important. Legacy probably has a good deal to do with it but
then Unix in general has a longer legacy than Windows.

Bottom line is that I don't currently expend any resources on anti-virus
software or software licenses on my Linux system and it does what I need
it to do and even on my Windows systems I have never inadvertently
installed a virus from an E-mail attachment. If that situation changes
I'll let you know.

Ian
-- 
www.theINGOTS.org
www.schoolforge.org.uk
www.opendocumentfellowship.org

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