Despite that this issue had been raised ages ago. It still persists in
OOo 3.0 and I can't find the option to remove non-stylesheet languages
without using the paste as plaintext quirk.
Why there is no "[Default]" language option in the language selector to
remove non-stylesheet language formatting attribute and revert to
stylesheet-linked behaviour?
Applying "remove formating" at least twice doesn't remove non-stylesheet
language attributes? Whereas "remove formating" does remove
stylesheet-linked language attributes. This behaviour is totally
inconsistant. Language is a formatting attribute! I want this to be
resolved for consistancy reasons.
I prefer languages to be linked to the stylesheets, but my older
documents had non-stylesheet language attributes applied which is almost
impossible to remove except by paste-as-plain-text quirk.
Paste-as-plain-text does not just remove attributes, but also it remove
footnote-inserts, bookmarks, etc. that can't be stored as plaintext.
Pasting plain-text in middle of text with formatting attribute overrides
will make the pasted text to be in those attribute overrides including
any non-stylesheet language formatting attribute.
Occassionally, I want to check spellchecker responses of words in
another language and revert the words back to the default
stylesheet-linked behaviour afterwards. The behaviour post-2.3 releases,
makes this impossible, because there is no "[Default]" language option
in the menus.
Could you include a way to remove non-stylesheet language formatting
attributes such as a "[Default]" language option?
Also, add an "advanced-remove-formatting" dialog where I can choose
which non-stylesheet formatting attribute (eg: bold, italic, size,
language, etc.) that I want to be removed without having to reformat the
text with non-stylesheet formatting attribute again (eg: reapply bold,
italic, etc).
Royal Ozma of Oz wrote:
Cor Nouws wrote:
Royal Ozma of Oz wrote (14-5-2008 13:32)
Cor Nouws wrote:
Royal Ozma of Oz wrote (14-5-2008 1:29)
Cor Nouws wrote:
Royal Ozma of Oz wrote (13-5-2008 12:34)
the persons who had read my post didn't see what I am trying to say.
You didn't understand my mail of 12-5-08 14:51 (UTC+2) then.
I discussed the change in behaviour of 'Default formatting', one
of the possibilities you mentioned to remove changed language
attributes.
Now, am I supposed to cancel out manual (non-stylesheet based)
language formatting without cutting-&-pasting in between an
external text editor?
Better not.
What also works, is Ctrl-C, Ctrl-Shft-V > Paste as unformatted text.
Still you have to make sure that you paste it decent & taint-free
area of the document. Paste as unformatted text does not always
insert it as format free text when re-inserted in middle of
non-stylesheet formatted text.
I didn't indicate in my example a move of the cursor, did I?
I know quite well how to manage OOo formatting (styles vs direct).
You know it:
Set the default language to "English (US)"
Enter in two lines of text with random text with an Enter at the end.
(You might include "colour" in the first line and "color" in the second
line)
Highlight the first line & make it as "English (GB)". (The word "colour"
will no longer have redline)
Copy something from the middle of the second line. (Eg: Use the word
"color")
Paste it in middle of the first line as unformatted text or
OpenOffice.org text.
Put the cursor in the middle where the text was pasted. It still reads
"English (GB)", the word "color" is redlined and paste is not 100%
completely unformatted.
But pls read below...
I had discovered that 1.4 has a domino effect on other places:
* Using "Default Formatting" under "Format" pull-down.
(The main 1.4 thing)
* Using "Default" character style with the "Styles and Formatting"
window.
* Clicking on "Reset" within dialog box which is opened by using
"Character" under "Format" pull-down.
I had even tried clicking on "Reset" twice to see if the
non-stylesheet language override disappears, but it didn't. Hint for
an "enhancement" to make "Reset" to clear remove non-stylesheet
language formatting if no other formatting needs to be removed. A
warning dialog may be prompted as well.
As written before in this thread: language is not an attribute of the
font.
But it is still an attribute of the text which is stored in
Paragraph/Character styles. I'd excepted that "Reset" and "Default
Formatting" should remove a layer of formatting per application.
Why languages are still selectable in that pane anyway? If I press
"Reset", I expect all overriding attributes in that pane to be cleared
including language.
Maybe if you move the languages under its own pane in the style editor
where the "Reset" button would make proper sense. Note! There are three
languages in the style editor, but not one. I have CJK & CTL modes
enabled. I generally need to use Ruby & other CJK formatting in my STL
documents.
Someday, it may be possible for a font to have metadata to allow some
the glyphs to appear different for certain languages. I don't know any
rendering engines or fonts that supports such metadata, but I put that
there for a possibility. This metadata feature would be especially
useful for Pan-CJK fonts & Pan-Unicode fonts.
Yet! Why there isn't a "Reset All" button to have a Reset to include
Language, or an "Advanced Reset" to allow me to Reset on per-attribute
basis.
I want full control of document formatting. The inability of or
complications in removing non-stylesheet language formatting doesn't
meet that goal.
How about adding a "Default" or "Cancel Manual Language Formatting"
in bottom of the screen's language selector in future version to
rectify this problem?
Maybe could be a valuable enhancement.
Another enhancement is to add a checkbox item in the Format pulldown
menu or in Tools->Options: "Protect language when default formatting"
or "Emulate Legacy Default Formatting".
But can you pls explain for me, what is the extra in that, above
Well, the character styles in "Style and Formatting" has a "Default"
to remove character-styles. Now, why "Default Formatting" remove
character-styles, whereas "Default" character style in "Style and
Formatting" never removes non-stylesheet character styling.
Should "Default Formatting" and "Default" character-style in "Style
and Formatting" be reformed to not touch each other's areas?
Looks as another subject. The Default paragraph style also does not
remove manual formatting.
That maybe a possibility if double-click on paragraph style's name twice
is implemented. Also, a triple click to remove non-stylesheet language.
As a sidenote! I can't override "Default" character style definition,
but I can override the "Default" paragraph style definition.
selecting and choosing the language of the surrounding text or
choosing none do not check spelling)?
The paste-as-unformatted or copy-three-virgin-lines are merely quirks.
I mainly prefer to use styles to manage document language formatting.
Sometimes, non-stylesheet languages are needed at some places which
adding more character styles would be bothersome. Although I should
start phasing in the practice of using stylesheet-based language
formatting.
If a non-stylesheet language override is still in effect when I start
on a new line, how can I change to another paragraph style that is
intended and defined for another language without still being in the
non-stylesheet language override mode?
That is a good example. Indeed, you have either to set the language to
the original one, or the next paragraph will have the changed language.
A reset could be useful here.
I'd not expect to write English in an Esperanto paragraph, and vice
versa. :-)
I might need to change that paragraph style to another dialect of a
language later on. If the non-stylesheet language overrides are in
place everywhere, I had to spend more time editing the document.
Here is another example for use of "default" language:
If I am composing educational documents with versions for different
English language markets. The documents contains intentional examples of
regional variations with manual language formatting.
When I ready to create a version of a document for a English Language
market. I just change the language dialect of the paragraph style to see
the red lines for color/colour, etc. for fixing up spelling, but all
intentional examples containing regional variation examples will not be
affected by the redline effect.
Another example that I might be writing a script for a stageshow which
contains characters who use different dialects of English and/or foreign
languages, but I want all the non-dialog text (eg: Instructions for
actors) to be only in a single English dialect.
This behaviour is - I see this now - different from how it was before.
Changing the language property of a paragraph style does not change
the language property of already place text hold in paragraphs with
that style. Which is in line with the principle that language is not a
property of the font/paragraph any more.
Look, the paragraph/character stylesheets still have language options.
If you say that language is no longer stylesheet related, wy are they
"still" there in stylesheet options?
You don't realize that some languages may have different paragraph
layout requirements so the language attribute is an important part of
the paragraph stylesheet.
The stylesheet linked "default" language behaviour still exists in
OpenOffice.org 2.4 try it.
I create a new style "Default (GB)" which is a copy of "Default" but
with "English (GB)". The original default is set to "English (US)"
I write line of text with paragraph style "Default". (Use example text
"color colour")
Put the cursor in the middle of line, bottom of screen reads "English
(US)".
I change the line to paragraph style "Default (GB)"
The bottom of screen reads "English (GB)"
I change the line back to paragraph style "Default"
The bottom of screen reads "English (US)"
Yep! The "Default" language is still linked to stylesheets. I still
consider that language is an attribute of paragraph and character. Why
the stylesheet options for them still have language options in them?
Without the ability to easily remove non-stylesheet languages, I would
have to write a OpenDocument XML tool to strip all non-stylesheet
languages to correct theis "problem" which 2.4 had created.
Yep! The language attribute in Character/Paragraph styless still exist
at OpenDocument.org XML level.
Next, you would say that you can't remove |lang:en-US> in the future
"Reveal-Codes" enabled version of OpenOffice.org
Regards,
Cor
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