>Speaking for myself, I don't think non-members should be left with junk. I want everyone to be able enjoy the space. It is for this reason that with the >recent growth of Synhak, and a steady stream of donations have been coming in. It would not be excellent for one person to claim something that could >be $300 in value especially when we're clamoring for funds for a bigger space. A simple procedure that places the needs of the space as a community >over an individual, to quote Ambassador Spock, "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few."
My thoughts: Well this all depends on "Time and Money". Yes you might find a laptop worth $300 in the donated stuff, but do you really want to spend the next month digging through junk to find it? or do you want to work on your next project? Even the ones that are not worth $$$ You still need to buy a charger and hard drive, that's $40 to $60 just to get one up and running plus $$ for your time spent working on it. My concern is that I don't want SYNHAK to become a recycling center and or computer repair shop. I am in good favor of dating all of the donated stuff so that it does not sit around forever and choke up our working space. We should defiantly give everyone a fare chance to claim stuff from the donations. I'll try to be at the meeting to join in the discussion there. >Bethany, when I worked at the Salvation Army thrift store, we had a different color for each week of the month, everything that was sorted and placed in >week one got a pink tag, week two was blue, three was green, and four was white. If white tags were coming out on the floor, that meant blue tags were >the oldest (and therefore 50% off). The end of the week saw the sale tag down to 1 dollar whatever it was... BUT... high value items like designer ?>handbags (Gucci, Louis Vuitton, etc.) or a solid oak bedroom set were exempt from these sales. I feel a similar tagging system can work for everyone. I'm sorry, but I hate that method. The thrift store is for people that cannot afford nice things so they buy second hand. What ticks me off is that if I buy some nice things and then give them to the thrift store, I expect to see them on the shelf for $1 to $5 just like everything else. Not on the online store going for list price. (I donated them so that some poor kid could enjoy them, not for a retailer to profit) On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 5:40 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net>wrote: > On Saturday, December 07, 2013 22:48:19 Philip P. Patnode wrote: > > Omar, > > > > Thanks for the directive to "just take it" and move on with my project. > > > > Unfortunately, that is not possible for me to do at this time. > > > > It is obvious from the contributors to this thread that there are > different > > points of view and positions on the issue of this specific HP laptop and > > about other high value donated items in general. > > > > Before I would agree to accept the donated laptop, I would insist on a > > consensus of opinion by a majority of SH members. > > This is the best course of action. Its obviously not something that we can > just forget about without coming to a solid conclusion we're all happy > with. > > > > > Perhaps the situation can be resolved in my favor at the next SH meeting > on > > Tuesday evening. > > > > If the laptop does wind up in my possession, I definitely will seek out > > your guidance and opinion as I proceed with my project. > > Your knowledge and experience in computer repair and maintenance was > > previously highlighted by several SH members, all of whom recommended > that > > I ask for your help in dealing with my non-functioning machine as a > project. > > > > Until another day, > > > > Philip > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Omar Rassi <omar.ra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Regarding the particular notebook in question: > > > > > > Philip, just take it. This drama is just too much for me, I see an > > > opportunity for synhak to be able to shorten a funding gap with the > recent > > > massive donation of high value computers and instead I get a rain of > guilt > > > and have to justify trying to prioritize the needs of the community as > a > > > whole. Philip, I am still willing to help you with your personal HP > laptop > > > in the troubleshooting process, I'm just tired of this thread. I'm not > > > going through all that equipment anymore, hack away! > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Philip P. Patnode > <ppatn...@gmail.com>wrote: > > >> Justin, > > >> > > >> No need to identify the first SH member who first assured me that I > could > > >> claim and make use of the HP laptop since it was in the clearly marked > > >> Junk > > >> Pile. > > >> > > >> No need to identify the second SH member who suddenly took possession > of > > >> the laptop from me in the name of SYNHAK, since it will not serve a > > >> useful > > >> purpose. > > >> > > >> The issue is about procedures or policies at SH, not individuals. > > >> > > >> The whole process of donations and the junk pile should be discussed > by > > >> the SH membership. Solutions to the obvious problems are needed. > > >> > > >> Just to be clear about my intentions, the damaged/broken/messed > > >> up/non-working laptop I own was intended to be my first project at SH. > > >> It > > >> was to be the source for a learning experience for me about laptop > > >> diagnostics, disassembly, repair or replacement of internal parts, > > >> reassembly, configuration and settings, directed online research for > > >> techniques and parts, plus full documentation of the project with > video > > >> or > > >> still images and/or written notes. I claimed the HP laptop from the > Junk > > >> Pile as a source for much needed spare parts. > > >> > > >> The finished project would have been a working laptop that was built > at > > >> SH using parts from both HP g7 series machines, with a little help > from > > >> some of the knowledgeable and experienced people who congregate at SH. > > >> For > > >> those who may wonder about the end result, the finished project would > > >> have > > >> been a working laptop for my personal use, not an item I would sell > > >> online. > > >> > > >> If anyone has questions or comments or suggestions about this issue of > > >> donated hardware, I suggest they bring up their concerns at the next > SH > > >> meeting. > > >> > > >> Philip > > >> > > >> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Justin Herman <just...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >>> What person in question? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Torrie Fischer < > tdfisc...@hackerbots.net > > >>> > > >>> > wrote: > > >>>> On Friday, December 06, 2013 14:54:16 Philip P. Patnode wrote: > > >>>> > *Suggestions for consideration by SYNHAK members -* > > >>>> > > > >>>> > *To avoid confusion, disappointment, and wasting time on projects > > >>>> > > >>>> that will > > >>>> > > >>>> > never happen, I suggest that the JUNK PILE (clearly marked with a > > >>>> > > >>>> sign, > > >>>> > > >>>> > usage policy established) be separated from the RECENT DONATIONS > PILE > > >>>> > > >>>> (not > > >>>> > > >>>> > marked, no policy) and I suggest **a formal SH policy be > established > > >>>> > > >>>> for > > >>>> > > >>>> > donations.* > > >>>> > > > >>>> > *In my opinion, two things need to happen at SYNHAK regarding > future > > >>>> > donations.* > > >>>> > > > >>>> > *One*, *the SH policy* on all donations - from any source, of any > > >>>> > > >>>> kind - > > >>>> > > >>>> > needs to be clearly stated and communicated to all members and > > >>>> > > >>>> non-members, > > >>>> > > >>>> > in print or by email or as added text on the SH webpage or all > three. > > >>>> > > >>>> Yeah, totes. We need to figure out something we can all agree on as > a > > >>>> protocol > > >>>> for receiving donations at the space. > > >>>> > > >>>> > *Two*,* the physical location* at SH for recent hardware donations > > >>>> > > >>>> needs to > > >>>> > > >>>> > be clearly marked with a sign/appropriate comments. For example, > > >>>> > > >>>> "Don't > > >>>> > > >>>> > Take" or "Not Available" or "Death by Laser" or "To Be Evaluated" > > >>>> > > >>>> might be > > >>>> > > >>>> > used to convey the message. > > >>>> > > >>>> Huh? Thats a bit restricting. Given time, I think the recent > donations > > >>>> pile > > >>>> would quickly become a second junk pile, but with people staying > away > > >>>> from it > > >>>> because hacking is not allowed. I know that I don't usually sort > > >>>> through new > > >>>> donations that show up because I'm not really sure where things > would > > >>>> fit in > > >>>> the space. > > >>>> > > >>>> See also: my mail earlier this week to encourage more funds for a > > >>>> bigger space > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> ----- > > >>>> > > >>>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> ----->>>> > > >>>> > -------------- > > >>>> > > > >>>> > Here is the back story behind the suggestions. My apologies for > the > > >>>> > > >>>> length > > >>>> > > >>>> > and details necessary to tell the story. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > At about 7.15pm last night, because of the delay over the turkey > > >>>> > > >>>> cooking > > >>>> > > >>>> > experiment, I spent some time taking a casual look at the > contents of > > >>>> > > >>>> the > > >>>> > > >>>> > hardware junk pile near the entrance to the main room. Looked at > and > > >>>> > > >>>> dug > > >>>> > > >>>> > through lots of boxes and shelves full of stuff, all under a sign > > >>>> > indicating that all of it was in the correct place - the Junk > Pile. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > Much to my surprise, I found a HP g7 series laptop that was very > > >>>> > > >>>> similar to > > >>>> > > >>>> > the HP g7-1019wm that I had brought with me to SH last night, in > the > > >>>> > > >>>> hope > > >>>> > > >>>> > of finding someone to help me diagnose/identify the problems and > > >>>> > > >>>> guide me > > >>>> > > >>>> > through the repair process. The HP I brought is a personal laptop > > >>>> > > >>>> and not > > >>>> > > >>>> > an item I plan to sell on eBay or Craigslist. It has a bad > cooling > > >>>> > > >>>> fan > > >>>> > > >>>> > (does not rotate - ever), a glitchy on/off switch, and two keys > > >>>> > > >>>> damaged - > > >>>> > > >>>> > the K and the L, and maybe other problems. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > A long-time full member of SH (not to be named) stopped by to chat > > >>>> > and > > >>>> > discuss the situation with me. During the conversation, he made > it > > >>>> > > >>>> very > > >>>> > > >>>> > clear that I could "claim" the donated item I found in the junk > pile > > >>>> > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> > use parts from it to fix my laptop. He was aware that I am not a > > >>>> > > >>>> sponsored > > >>>> > > >>>> > member of SH, only a recent interested person who likes the > concept > > >>>> > > >>>> of SH > > >>>> > > >>>> > and has made an effort to swim with the rolling tide. As the > turkey > > >>>> > > >>>> frying > > >>>> > > >>>> > situation was still developing out on the loading deck, I spent > the > > >>>> > > >>>> next 45 > > >>>> > > >>>> > minutes doing some online research about the specs for both HP > > >>>> > > >>>> laptops and > > >>>> > > >>>> > going through the HP support forums to read the comments about > > >>>> > similar > > >>>> > problems. I was on page two of my notes when a dark cloud > appeared on > > >>>> > > >>>> the > > >>>> > > >>>> > horizon. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > My joy of finding a possible solution to my laptop problem turned > to > > >>>> > serious disappointment and frustration when another long-time full > > >>>> > > >>>> member > > >>>> > > >>>> > of SH (again, not to be named) approached and summarily declared > that > > >>>> > > >>>> the > > >>>> > > >>>> > donated item was not available to me or anyone else, but would be > > >>>> > > >>>> retained > > >>>> > > >>>> > by SH to be diagnosed and possibly repaired and used by SH or sold > > >>>> > for > > >>>> > cash. There was no room allowed for any further discussion about > the > > >>>> > donated laptop. Do'ocracy in action? > > >>>> > > >>>> Wowzers. That is highly unexcellent. Whoever did that should've > heard > > >>>> your > > >>>> claim to it and understood that they can't just take things from > > >>>> others. The > > >>>> junk pile isn't the exclusive property of SYNHAK members. It never > has > > >>>> been. > > >>>> > > >>>> > As a non-member, with no power, no influence, no ace-in-the-hole, > and > > >>>> > definitely no say about anything regarding anything at SH, I > tried to > > >>>> > minimize my comments and watched as the member picked up the > laptop > > >>>> > > >>>> off the > > >>>> > > >>>> > work area where I had it and proceeded to disassemble it on > another > > >>>> > > >>>> bench, > > >>>> > > >>>> > check out a few items, and put it back together again. He then > moved > > >>>> > > >>>> to a > > >>>> > > >>>> > back room, out of sight and out of reach, as if he was concerned > that > > >>>> > > >>>> it > > >>>> > > >>>> > would find a way back to the junk pile, or worse, out to someone's > > >>>> > > >>>> car and > > >>>> > > >>>> > disappear forever. The series of actions by the member almost > > >>>> > > >>>> appeared as > > >>>> > > >>>> > if he was worried I would run off with the donated HP moment he > > >>>> > > >>>> turned his > > >>>> > > >>>> > back on it, although I might be entirely in error about his > thoughts > > >>>> > > >>>> on the > > >>>> > > >>>> > matter. > > >>>> > > >>>> Nah, the back room is our member storage closet. If someone finds a > > >>>> donation > > >>>> to be useful, they'll pick it up and start hacking on it. If they've > > >>>> got plans > > >>>> for it, it goes into the storage room or gets a Do Not Hack sticker. > > >>>> Still > > >>>> though, they have no right to take it away from someone who has laid > > >>>> claim to > > >>>> it, regardless of membership status. > > >>>> > > >>>> There are only four benefits to SYNHAK membership: > > >>>> > > >>>> 1. You can participate in our self governance > > >>>> 2. You get to use the member storage room > > >>>> 3. An option to have a lock on a member bin in the storage room > > >>>> 4. Apply for a key > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm still a bit shocked that the laptop was just taken without any > > >>>> discussion, > > >>>> *especially* for an impromptu donation that nobody else knew about > > >>>> unless they > > >>>> happened to be in the space in the last two days or were > particularly > > >>>> observant. I would appreciate it if the person in question contacted > > >>>> Philip > > >>>> and discussed a solution. > > >>>> > > >>>> > The names of the SH members who were involved are not essential to > > >>>> > the > > >>>> > issue and are not the basis for the suggestions. Personalities > play > > >>>> > > >>>> no > > >>>> > > >>>> > part in my suggestion to take action on the matter of donations to > > >>>> > SH. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > Only turkey feathers should be ruffled, as I am not making this > an > > >>>> > > >>>> issue > > >>>> > > >>>> > about any particular member. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > On a final note, I would consider buying the donated HP g7 series > > >>>> > > >>>> laptop > > >>>> > > >>>> > from SH at a reasonable price to use for parts or repair, if it is > > >>>> > available now or becomes available in the near future. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > In the meantime, I will avoid even looking at anything within > 10ft of > > >>>> > > >>>> the > > >>>> > > >>>> > combo donations/junk pile. I don't want to get my hope up and > then > > >>>> > > >>>> have it > > >>>> > > >>>> > dashed again. > > >>>> > > > >>>> > Philip > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Discuss mailing list > > >>>> Discuss@synhak.org > > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Discuss mailing list > > >>> Discuss@synhak.org > > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Discuss mailing list > > >> Discuss@synhak.org > > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > Discuss@synhak.org > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@synhak.org > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >
_______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
