On 2/26/2014 9:59 AM, Justin Herman wrote: > I trust ALL of our members. I trust them so much I sublet space. > > A used server would cost us under $500 and could have a lifetime of > over 2 years! If we upgrade the ISP we also have the option to > increase bandwidth. 2 servers * $500 / 2 years = $41.67/mo in server payments. That's just the cost to OWN the servers. Let alone the cost of maintaining them (replacing HDDs, power supplies, etc when they go bad). Or the cost to operate them (power, network, cooling). > > I am not suggesting a service will give us ALL of what we use but I > know that we could get some services pulled off. > > Purchasing from a NON-FOSS as a risk I see as minimal. We can still > use open source technology of other purposes but simply offloading > some work. In fact I think it could HELP us manage the system as more > members and non-members could participate, instead of having to learn > the wiki formatting. It also solves the issue of the wiki attachments. I have offered this before, and will offer it again. If you do not know how to do MediaWiki formatting, request it, and I will host a class. If learning MediaWiki formatting is not something you care about, but want to help document aspects of the space, then make a page with no formatting, email me the link of the page, and I'll format it for you. If one of the major concerns is that people can't figure out how to use the editor, I'll look into deploying Wikipedia's WYSIWIG editor as an option for those people who are uncomfortable with MediaWIki markup.
For reference, the only active people that have accounts on the wiki right now are myself, G, Craig, Justin and Phong. We really only have a group of 6 or 7 people total that edit the wiki. I know of a couple people that edit anonymously for reasons of their choosing. > > There are Co-los in Akron and surrounding areas so drive is minimal at > best. And they may be willing to host a 501c3 for charity. Unless you know someone at one of those locations that owes you a massive favor or have massive blackmail material on them, it's probably not even worth looking into. If we purchased two servers for $500 each like you suggested, then got hosting for an absolutely miraculous $20/month per server, with all bandwidth, power and cooling upcharges included, you'd still be at the same price that we're paying for AWS right now, and we wouldn't be able to guarantee our hardware. > > I am suggesting we maintain spiff but offload other features. If AWS > is the best place for it then keep it there. But since it is fewer > services there are less machines that need to run and less cost. > > If I am correct you are saying NO other method is possible and I find > that extremely unlikely, I am suggesting we discuss it in a working > group and talk about our options. Weigh Pros/Cons. Explore options. I > feel it is extremely unwise not to evaluate a few options with clear > minds, before moving forward with a longer subscription. We're not saying that no other option is possible. We are saying that no other option is currently price-competitive. If you can suggest a hosting provider that can provide MediaWiki hosting, Mailman hosting, custom Django-based application uwsgi hosting, a MySQL server, distributed DNS, an HTTP/HTTPS load-balancer, backup storage, and do so with the performance and reliability of Amazon Web Services while handling over 1 million page views per year, all for under $85/mo, I would be MORE than happy to evaluate it. Please let me know if you find this hosting provider. > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:37 AM, Torrie Fischer > <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net <mailto:tdfisc...@hackerbots.net>> wrote: > > On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 09:12:09 Justin Herman wrote: > > We have more options now than we did when the system was > designed. I think > > we need to be talking about IF this is the best option for us. > > > > IDEAS: > > *Instead of spending more $ on AWS we could host it ourselves > and use the > > AWS $ for an ISP with an SLA. > > You trust the physical security of a server around a group of > hackers, many of > which you've never met before? > > > *Contact other hosting & VPS providers for discounts for 501c3. > > I'd be pretty impressed if you could find an organization that > will give us a > 501c3 discount for the services that we use. > > > *Co-Lo at another location. > > I'm not in favor of paying anything for the upkeep of physical > hardware that > will eventually die in a glorious fire of "ahhh shit we need more > money to buy > replacements" in addition to the resources and time it would take to > physically drive to the facility. > > > *Use alternative services like groupspaces --- > > http://groupspaces.com/SynHakThey offer a service that can > handle our > > Email, Membership listing, > > Wiki/Website, Membership Private area, File Hosting, Event > Announcement, > > and Payment scheduling. (this would not help with spiff but > would allow us > > to offload many critical pieces) > > I do not trust non-FOSS software to run our organization, as it > limits the > openness for contributions to running a hackerspace. I will > fiercely fight > against any non-FOSS alternative. > > > > > I am not suggesting throwing out Spiff with the bath water but > simply > > stating maybe its time we reevaluate the design INSTEAD of > throwing $ at a > > project without evaluating other options. > > I'm always looking for feedback on Spiff's design. Actually, I've > asked for > help many times on discuss@ but nobody seems to want to give input. > > Are you implying that this money would go towards Spiff in some > way? That is > not at all what I'm trying to communicate. > > > > > I would like to setup a Working Group to discuss the needs and > evaluate the > > options. Would anyone else be interested in doing this also and > if so when? > > I pretty much explained our needs in my email. > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Andrew Buczko > <a4s...@dsprototyping.com <mailto:a4s...@dsprototyping.com>>wrote: > > > What is AWS ? (Akron Waffle Supply) > > > > > > * here is our current infrastructure: > > > > > > ** Two t1.micro servers as web servers > > > ** One t1.micro server as mail host > > > ** One t1.micro MySQL RDS instance > > > > > > *** current AWS bill: $81,88 /mo > > > > > > > > > *Here is the new infrastucture: > > > > > > ** 3 year heavy reservations for two t1.micro EC2 instances @ $200 > > > ** 1 year heavy reservation for one m1.small EC2 instance @ $169 > > > ** 3 year heavy reservation for one m1.small EC2 instance @ $257 > > > ** 3 year heavy reservation for one m1.small MySQL RDS > instance @ $257.00 > > > > > > *** Total upfront cost: $883.00 > > > *** Estimated monthly cost to run synhak.org > <http://synhak.org>: $83.52 > > > > > > This sounds great. > > > > > > 1> Um, according to your figures, the new infrastructure will > cost $1.64 > > > more per month than the old one, Where do you get a savings of > $123.10? > > > > > > 2> Is it what we need? What do the logs show as far as load's > on the > > > current servers? > > > > > > 3> Can we get smaller servers and save even more money? > > > > > > This is an operating expense and does not fall under the grant > that we > > > just got. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Torrie Fischer > <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net <mailto:tdfisc...@hackerbots.net>>wrote: > > >> On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 12:38:58 Justin Herman wrote: > > >> > I think an evaluation of several hosting options and > establishing the > > >> > infrastructure needs be done, before we earmark funds and > make any plan > > >> > changes. > > >> > > >> I didn't say any funds were being earmarked. I'm not > evaluating other > > >> hosting > > >> options because I'm the one doing the work and would very > much rather not > > >> migrate synhak.org <http://synhak.org> to another provider > when I've already poured a > > >> significant > > >> quantity of effort and time into the current setup. > > >> > > >> > I am concerned with how much horse power & cost has been > amassed even > > >> > > >> after > > >> > > >> > we have achieved a 501c3 status. > > >> > > >> Please elaborate. > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Torrie Fischer > > >> > > > >> > <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net > <mailto:tdfisc...@hackerbots.net>>wrote: > > >> > > Hi, all. > > >> > > > > >> > > Something I've wanted to do for quite some time is invest > in some > > >> > > >> reserved > > >> > > >> > > AWS > > >> > > instances for synhak.org <http://synhak.org> to reduce > our monthly bill. The problem with > > >> > > that is > > >> > > paying the high up-front cost. Since we now have this > $15k grant, I'd > > >> > > >> like > > >> > > >> > > to > > >> > > use a small portion of it to build what I consider an ideal > > >> > > >> synhak.org <http://synhak.org> > > >> > > >> > > infrastructure: > > >> > > > > >> > > * 3 year heavy reservations for two t1.micro EC2 > instances @ $200 > > >> > > * 1 year heavy reservation for one m1.small EC2 instance > @ $169 > > >> > > * 3 year heavy reservation for one m1.small EC2 instance > @ $257 > > >> > > * 3 year heavy reservation for one m1.small MySQL RDS > instance @ > > >> > > >> $257.00 > > >> > > >> > > Total upfront cost: $883.00 > > >> > > Estimated monthly cost to run synhak.org > <http://synhak.org>: $83.52 > > >> > > Estimated cost without reservations: $206.62 > > >> > > > > >> > > Monthly savings: $123.10 > > >> > > Yearly savings: $1447.20 > > >> > > > > >> > > One year commitment: $1002.24, approximately 14% of our 2013 > > >> > > >> membership > > >> > > >> > > dues > > >> > > income. > > >> > > Three year commitment: $3006.72, approximately 8% of > projected three > > >> > > >> year > > >> > > >> > > income of $36,000. > > >> > > > > >> > > Our member dues already handily cover all our other bills. > > >> > > >> > > Here's my sources on the AWS calculator: > > >> > http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html#r=IAD&key=calc-E7EBCA4F-D17 > > >> 1 > > >> > > >> > > -416F-AB21-D1CFE82DE07B > > >> > > > > >> > > The two micros will be used as edge webservers to host > the wiki and > > >> > > >> spiff. > > >> > > >> > > The one year small will be a general purpose shell, > phong, logging, > > >> > > >> and > > >> > > >> > > event > > >> > > processing server > > >> > > The three year small will be a dedicated mailing list server > > >> > > > > >> > > I'm suggesting a one year reservation to avoid getting > ourselves > > >> > > >> locked > > >> > > >> > > into a > > >> > > situation of needing more horsepower for administrivia > but not able > > >> > > to > > >> > > spend > > >> > > more than $85/mo. I don't envision our mailing list server > > >> > > >> requirements > > >> > > >> > > growing beyond an m1.small instance within the next three > years, > > >> > > >> provided > > >> > > >> > > it > > >> > > remains dedicated to just mail. > > >> > > > > >> > > Our current AWS bill is $81.88/mo due to free tier > expiring a few > > >> > > >> months > > >> > > >> > > ago. > > >> > > This investment will keep our monthly infrastructure bill > roughly the > > >> > > >> same > > >> > > >> > > while at the same time giving us a *lot* more room to > grow for that > > >> > > >> same > > >> > > >> > > price. For comparison, here is our current infrastructure: > > >> > > > > >> > > * Two t1.micro servers as web servers > > >> > > * One t1.micro server as mail host > > >> > > * One t1.micro MySQL RDS instance > > >> > > > > >> > > The following benefits will be realized with this $883 > investment: > > >> > > > > >> > > * Faster performance on mediawiki, spiff, and other > applications > > >> > > * Less resource contention when mailman, postfix, phong, > and document > > >> > > rebuilding aren't all competing for the same pittance of > CPU and > > >> > > >> memory > > >> > > >> > > * Tighter security by establishing a bastion host setup > resulting in > > >> > > exactly > > >> > > two public endpoints for synhak.org <http://synhak.org> > > >> > > * Room for growth in website activity and services offered > > >> > > * Significant cost reduction in critical infrastructure > will be > > >> > > >> secured > > >> > > >> > > for > > >> > > three years > > >> > > * We would have a really cool playground for devops hackers > > >> > > * Current $80/mo AWS budget could be reallocated towards the > > >> > > >> maintenance > > >> > > >> > > budget or funneled into a monthly Hacker Grant program. > > >> > > > > >> > > I would appreciate any feedback on this idea. > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Discuss mailing list > > >> > > Discuss@synhak.org <mailto:Discuss@synhak.org> > > >> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Discuss mailing list > > >> Discuss@synhak.org <mailto:Discuss@synhak.org> > > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > Discuss@synhak.org <mailto:Discuss@synhak.org> > > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@synhak.org <mailto:Discuss@synhak.org> > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@synhak.org > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
