On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:45 PM, anatoly techtonik <techto...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Tarek Ziadé <ziade.ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [..]
>>> distutils is not a `package management` tool, because it doesn't know
>>> anything even about installed packages, not saying anything about
>>> dependencies.
>>
>> At this point, no one knows anything about installed packages at the
>> Python level.
>
> Users do not care about this, and `distutils` doesn't know this even
> at package level.
>
>> Keeping track of installed projects is a feature done within each
>> package managment system.
>>
>> And the whole purpose of PEP 376 is to define a database of what's
>> installed, for the sake of interoperability.
>
> That's great. When it will be ready everybody would be happy to make
> their package management tool compliant.
>
>>>
>>> `pip` and `distribute` are unknown for a vast majority of Python
>>> users, so if you have a perspective replacement for `easy_install` -
>>
>> Depending on how you call a Python user, I disagree here. Many people
>> use pip and distribute.
>>
>> The first one because it has an uninstall feature among other things.
>> The second one because it fixes some bugs of setuptools and provides
>> Python 3 support
>
> I do not mind if we can distribute three stubs, they will also serve
> as pointers for a better way of packaging when an ultimate tool is
> finally born. Me personally is willing to elaborate for `easy_install`
> stub in 2.7.
>
>>>
>>> For now there are two questions:
>>> 1. Are they stable enough for the replacement of user command line
>>> `easy_install` tool?
>>> 2. Which one is the recommended?
>>>
>>> P.S. Should there be an accessible FAQ in addition to ML?
>>
>> This FAQ work has been started in th "HitchHicker's guide to
>> Packaging" you can find here:
>>
>> http://guide.python-distribute.org
>
> I can see any FAQ. To me the FAQ is something that could be posted to
> distutils ML once a month to reflect current state of packaging. It
> should also carry version number. So anybody can comment on the FAQ,
> ask another question or ask to make a change.
>
>> Again, any new code work will not happen because 2.7 is due in less
>> than a week. Things are happening in Distutils2.
>
> That doesn't solve the problem. Bootstrap script can be written in one
> day. What we need is a consensus whatever this script is welcomed in
> 2.7 or not? Who is the person to make the decision?
>
>> Now, for the "best practice" documentation, I think the guide is the
>> best plce to look at.
>
> Let's refer to original user story:
> "I installed Python and need a quick way to install my packages on top of it."
python setup.py install works well, and has for almost a decade.
If you need setuptools, you can include ez_setup.py, which does
exactly what you want, without adding a hugely controversial feature
to python proper. You do something like:
try:
import setuptools
except ImportError:
print "Run ez_setup.py first"
....
And you're done,
cheers,
David
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