On Nov 5, 1:35 am, "Russell Keith-Magee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 11:04 PM, mrts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Most other projects are managed by a priority queue and clear target
> > set for releases ("this has to go into 1.0.1, this can wait until
> > 1.0.2"). No problem if discussions on the mailing list are the
> > preferred way of doing it instead of Trac tools -- until things really
> > get done.
>
> "Most other projects" is an ad hominem, so I won't respond to that.Yeah, that was imprecise and overgeneralized, sorry for that. I had mainly Python and Debian/Ubuntu in mind, but I believe Gnome and Firefox have a similar workflow. Python has release blockers (that may become deferred blockers), Ubuntu and Debian have critical bugs that are usually fixed before a release. There is a general sense of what is important and what not in the bug database. > Let me lay out the alternatives to you. Let us assume that we have a > milestone, and tickets get assigned to it: > > Option 1: We don't release until all tickets on the milestone are complete. Tickets in a milestone are prioritized. We don't release until all _critical_ bugs on the milestone are fixed as other projects listed above do. Final decision on whether something is critical or not is made by core devs. There is a set timeline with a bit of flex to cater for delays in getting critical fixes in. Even before minor releases there is a string freeze so that translators have a known point in time for contributing translations. Mailing list discussions are good, but in an ideal world they would be complemented by a severity tag in Trac to communicate priorities and a classifier tag to separate bugs and features. > Post v1.0, our only goal is "zarro boogs", delivered on a timely > schedule - again, we don't need milestones to keep track of this goal, > because every open ticket is a target. What we _do_ need is a > community that works on triage and bug fixes, and draws the attention > of the core devs to particularly annoying or confusing bugs. You have that community. 712 out of 1249 open tickets have patches, I personally usually write a patch if something disturbs me. But as of now the list is just an unordered soup of trivial fixes, "I want a pony" and larger issues. I really doubt anyone has a general overview of all of it. I myself feel apprehensive at the bug mass -- how do I know that I will not hit into something important hidden there, but wading through the list to pick important bits apart from feature requests is quite an effort. All in all, I like Django itself a lot. The code and conceptual structure is mostly a pleasure to look at, you all have done an excellent job and deserve a lot of respect. So in no way do I want to say that things are bad as they are. But the defensive attitude and constant fighting (that has gone on for years) on the same issues has caused a lot of bitterness (e.g. google django hate: a whopping 426,000 results, hopefully no more than a couple of first pages are relevant *chuckle*) -- the main issue being that people do contribute but they don't see it going anywhere. This is where Trac helps a little by a) milestones: assuring that there is a known date when a given ticket will be looked at b) priorities: assuring that when I report something important it will not get buried under a ton of "I want a pony" requests, also for effectively finding bits that need attention and may disturb project development. A good process does not work against people and even tries to take their psychology into account, no? Maybe I'm too outspoken as James suggests and I see some value in the mailing list process, it is just that Trac would support it. Over and out on this theme until it pops up again, MS --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
