OK, I guess I'll weigh in on the substance. The thing about "master" and "slave" is not (or at least not only) that they refer to a sociopolitical configuration that is objectionable (for example, the institutionally racist forms of slavery that have occurred in many parts of the world throughout history). It's that the interpersonal dynamic of "master" and "slave" is itself abhorrent, absent its implications or reminders.
On one hand, I am OK with regarding a machine (say, a database server) as an utter servant. I want a future in which machines are not granted the leeways that humans have in the names of liberty and justice. It's not difficult to imagine a number of dystopic scenarios built atop a world in which machine sovereignty is a trojan horse. On the other hand, the words "master" and "slave," as they refer to distributed database systems, are not actual a reference to the roles of machines, but instead are a metaphor to describe our belief about how this abstraction is to be regarded. In this sense, "master" and "slave" are not particularly accurate. The other suggestions on these two threads all communicate a more expressive metaphor for the way we want distributed databases to work. Finally (albeit perhaps tangentially), it is telling that, almost without exception, detractors from this change regard slavery as either having ended, being now illegal, or being something other than a really big deal. Slavery, even in the United States, is not illegal. The 13th amendment to the US constitution specifically includes an exception to the ban on slavery, allowing it "as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted." There are currently more people - and more people of color - living under slavery of this type now than at any point prior to the civil war. Of these, an abhorrently large number are subject to this condition as "punishment for crime" which many if not all of us can agree is not justly regarded as a crime at all. If, in some small way, this shift in language can signal that we regard not only the historical implications of the word "slave" but in fact the very relationship structure described by "slave" and "master," we've done a good thing. On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Justin Holmes <jus...@justinholmes.com> wrote: > Although Meira's comments are disagreeable to me, and in at least one case > clearly factually incorrect, she has not come close to violating the code > of conduct. Nor has she been particularly disrespectful. To even talk > abut banning her is absurd, particularly in a thread whose subject is > developing inclusive language. > > > On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Jacob Kaplan-Moss <ja...@jacobian.org> > wrote: > >> Meira, your position has been made abundantly clear, and now your >> behavior is treading dangerously close to the line. I'll remind you and >> others of our community's code of conduct ( >> https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/), which specifically requires >> that we be welcoming, friendly, patient, and respectful. Meira, you're not >> doing a great job on any of these, specifically the respect. >> >> Again you've made your point, and thank you for it. We all know where you >> stand. Now it's time for you to withdraw from this thread. >> >> I don't want to ban you from the list, but I will if I need to. >> >> Jacob >> >> >> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:21 PM, Meira <poo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I meant legally, of course. It is illegal now. Should we ban the word >>> "drugstore" too, maybe? >>> >>> I previously pointed out that I'm aware of the fact that there still is >>> slavery in one form or another. I also mentioned that I don't believe this >>> change made django more attractive for any of the current slaves. >>> Not even single slave's life was in any way improved by a free person >>> complaining about a server being called "slave". >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 12:16:27 AM UTC+7, Alex_Gaynor wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Meira <poo...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think it makes more sense to count reasonable arguments of both >>>>> sides, not the people who thumb up in the comments (by the way, those who >>>>> thumb up are mostly Americans, isn't that discrimination?) >>>>> If using the word "slave" is immediately associated with racism, it's >>>>> a sign that we might have too many Americans in the topic, because for me, >>>>> "slave" is not equal to "black slave". Maybe it's because we have too many >>>>> bears and too few black folks in my country, but we did have (practically) >>>>> slavery, too. >>>>> >>>>> I also have a problem with the phrase "inclusive language". Who >>>>> exactly was "included" by this change? I highly doubt that there was a >>>>> slave who started using django after the change. It seems to me, it's the >>>>> American historical guilt playing a huge role here. >>>>> >>>>> It's an old misconception, it seems that if we change the words, we'll >>>>> change the reality. By banning the word "slave", you cannot cancel the >>>>> fact >>>>> that for many years, black people in the US were treated worse than >>>>> animals. I don't think that an attempt to forget that fact by aggressively >>>>> labeling words as "racist" is "inclusive" or "positive". >>>>> I actually think that remembering bad things that are now history >>>>> should encourage people to be a little nicer to each other at the moment. >>>>> >>>>> We had slavery, and now we don't. It has nothing to do with databases >>>>> :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> This is factually incorrect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery# >>>> Present_day >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 11:54:16 PM UTC+7, Daniele Procida wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 27, 2014, Andromeda Yelton <andromed...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >Which is a little beside the point as the process for merging PRs is >>>>>> not, >>>>>> >in fact, democracy. But is also fantastic, because I've spent the >>>>>> last >>>>>> >week reading TRAC and hanging out here and talking to lots of people >>>>>> trying >>>>>> >to figure out if Django will be a safe place for me to contribute. >>>>>> And >>>>>> >when I see that large a fraction of commenters come down on the side >>>>>> of >>>>>> >inclusivity, I feel like "django developer" is a hat I can put on. >>>>>> >>>>>> If we get a single more person contributing to Django as a result, I >>>>>> would consider this whole episode as being entirely worth it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Not that I think it's a sustainable strategy in the long term, of >>>>>> course. >>>>>> >>>>>> Daniele >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Django developers" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to django-d...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>>>> msgid/django-developers/4da37237-adb4-49bd-b710- >>>>> 280dda186aea%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/4da37237-adb4-49bd-b710-280dda186aea%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> -- >>>> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your >>>> right to say it." -- Evelyn Beatrice Hall (summarizing Voltaire) >>>> "The people's good is the highest law." -- Cicero >>>> GPG Key fingerprint: 125F 5C67 DFE9 4084 >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Django developers" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/6b9c68a2-01e2-433f-a442-16d4bd8ba51e%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/6b9c68a2-01e2-433f-a442-16d4bd8ba51e%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAK8PqJEgSJAUgT0FbTbxh9%3D%3DZG0gzjZ2qaBSWdGARYiaPoJpFw%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAK8PqJEgSJAUgT0FbTbxh9%3D%3DZG0gzjZ2qaBSWdGARYiaPoJpFw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Justin Holmes > Chief Chocobo Breeder, slashRoot > > slashRoot: Coffee House and Tech Dojo > New Paltz, NY 12561 > 845.633.8330 > -- Justin Holmes Chief Chocobo Breeder, slashRoot slashRoot: Coffee House and Tech Dojo New Paltz, NY 12561 845.633.8330 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. 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