I would agree with both of you - I think the most important thing is to get the view layer async-capable, as that then lets sites use any manner of asynchronous libraries that already exist to get experiments and unique things going. Tom Christie, for example, has already started work on an asynchronous ORM. Some of Django's biggest sites don't use the ORM - for example, Instagram.
That said, I also think it's important to allow the ORM to support both modes in the long term. I truly believe the best way to be able to write async code is to _have the choice to write it_, rather than being made to all the time; if we make people use a separate, async ORM, then we force them to write every view asynchronously, with all the extra danger and thinking that requires. It's much better for Django to do the hard work, and say "hey, if you want to write asynchronously or synchronously, that's fine - it takes literally zero extra effort to go either way". This is why I propose in the DEP that we do the view layer first, and then move onto the ORM as a second wave. Andrew On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 12:29 PM Patryk Zawadzki <pat...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm not sure but for me the "What is Django" section answers the question. >> For me Django is full of philosophy that seeds a great ecosystem of apps of >> all sorts with a growing user base nonetheless, and a bunch of brilliant >> hackers to look up to and inspire for more. Of course if you're into fixing >> a particular technical issue such as "I want to make an efficient GraphQL >> server", then even Django works even if it's not necessarily the most fit >> for X reason. But for "I want to get a web page going with some forms and a >> database and see where that goes" then Django is definitely enjoyable, and >> at this point in time where tons of more sophisticated frameworks are born >> it's clear that Django is still in the game and will be for the next 10 >> years. So, why not also get more features out of it while we've not been >> abandoned by all the talented contributors ? It's not because we like >> Django that we cant haz nice things ;) >> > > I'm arguing the opposite, that by limiting the scope of the MVP to > asynchronous views (even if middleware stays synchronous for now) and using > an existing ORM we can make Django a viable solution for many new > applications. And some of them don't need the full stack. > > I'd go as far as arguing that fewer and fewer applications benefit from > Django providing all of the pieces (as many new applications only implement > an API and render in the client) so treating them all as blockers here may > not be beneficial. > > Best regards > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/314d7b71-1bf1-441b-ae49-e4fbeb5e1891%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/314d7b71-1bf1-441b-ae49-e4fbeb5e1891%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/django-developers. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAFwN1urQVr%3DZ55Xqn7E%2B5-AeZU-egJAZ_%2BooAp_3nSSYnbNX7w%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
