I hadn't seen django-simple-deploy. At first glance, it looks interesting, but more platform-specific than what I was thinking.
I'll play around with creating a third-party app that encapsulates some of these thoughts and see where I end up. Thanks for your time and feedback! On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 1:17:12 PM UTC-6 carlton...@gmail.com wrote: > Hey Pete. > > Yes, there can be a lot of steps... (and trouble is every one has a > different opinion once you get to specifics :) > > django-webserver looks good β in a similar ballpark to what I had in mind, > yes, but I'd probably not want to bundle the options for each server > myself, as that seems a lot to maintain over time... (Better to outsource > to the individual projects no?) > > Have you seen what Eric Matthes is doing with django-simple-deploy? > > https://github.com/ehmatthes/django-simple-deploy > > I really like the idea: in an opinionated way, it applies the project > changes you need to deploy (and it's plugable so folks could provide a > *template* for their own flavour of deployment if they wanted, which is > kind of important given the number of options in the landscape, even if you > only to *ship* a beginner option.) > > Tim Allen also recently raised improving the Django project template, > which I think is related here. (That's on my list too: async this QTR, then > hoping to take on Adam's proposal to modernise the Request object for the > end of year, then π€ swinging back here for "OK, what does it look like, > what can we do?" after that: there's a bunch of related tickets around > #21978 that it would be very sweet if we could clear up...) > > I think all these thoughts are really pursuable outside of core in the > very short run, even if the goal is to merge them β it's much easier to > experiment that way, and then say, "This worked". > > Anyhow, other than a "I've been thinking along these lines", and a > generally positive emote, I don't have too much more concrete at this > stage. > π > C. > > On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 19:00, Peter Baumgartner <pe...@lincolnloop.com> > wrote: > >> Thanks for the additional background Carlton! I like the idea of >> having some sort of protocol that folks can follow to make >> ready-to-use Django server packages (django-webserver [1] is in the >> same vein), but I'd strive for more. pip install + INSTALLED_APPS is >> great, but getting to production with that approach can feel like >> death by a thousand paper cuts. Do that with gunicorn, whitenoise, >> dj-database-url, etc. and it ends up being a laundry list of things >> that, in my experience, people rarely get right on the first try and >> just result in frustration. >> >> It seems like part of the challenge here is reaching parity with the >> current runserver command, but is that necessary? Running `runserver >> --dev` locally and getting dev features like autoreloading and then >> having `runserver` use a different server for a deployed app doesn't >> seem unreasonable. >> >> [1] https://github.com/lincolnloop/django-webserver >> >> On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 10:14 AM Carlton Gibson >> <carlton...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hey Pete. >> > >> > Yes... this is a good one. >> > >> > It's difficult to see how we can even have an ASGI runserver in core, >> simply because there's no SimpleServer equivalent as there is for WSGI, and >> it's not clear one is on the card. (HTTP is getting **more** complex, and I >> can't see Python bringing such into the standard library.) >> > So we have to use a third-party dependency for that. >> > >> > For the Channels v4 update (in progress now) I'm moving the runserver >> command to the Daphne package. This was because folks wanted to use >> Channels without the Daphne/Twisted dependency. >> > >> > See: https://github.com/django/daphne/pull/429 >> > >> > tl;dr β it came out pretty clean TBH. You pip install daphne, then add >> "daphne" at the top of INSTALLED_APPS. (There's a system check to make sure >> you're not fighting staticfiles.) >> > >> > On the back of that I don't see why servers (any servers) can't provide >> a runserver command (or a django-* mini-package to go with it) and offer >> what they offer in development as well as production. (Obviously that all >> needs writing but it's just a management command.) >> > >> > Related is strategising the reloader. >> https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/30213 >> > >> > We could then host *Protocols* β "Your runserver should do this", >> "Implement this for your reloader", and so on β and (maybe) (slowly) >> replace built-in options here with either optional dependencies (pip >> install django["daphne"]) or recommendations to get going. (pip install >> django["starter"] maybe). β I don't know β we seem a long way from that. (I >> don't suppose wsgiref is going anywhere too soon is it?) >> > >> > But to cut back to your point, I don't know that we need to **include** >> a server β just make it easy to get going. These days pip install + a line >> in INSTALLED_APPS doesn't seem too much to ask (I think.) >> > >> > Was it really 4 years ago Tom left that comment on #21978 π³ (We'd >> finally close this as wontfix: Django doesn't ship a webserver.) >> > >> > Does that fit in your view, or would that scenario not be good enough? >> > >> > Kind Regards, >> > >> > Carlton >> > >> > On Tue, 23 Aug 2022 at 16:56, Peter Baumgartner <pe...@lincolnloop.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi all! I'd like to re-open the discussion around >> >> https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/21978 >> >> >> >> As a "batteries included" framework, Django kind of leaves people to >> >> fend for themselves when it comes to deployment. This makes it harder >> >> than necessary for a developer to go from works-on-my-laptop to >> >> works-on-the-internet. The docs here are great, but also daunting to a >> >> newcomer https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/4.1/howto/deployment/ >> >> >> >> I'd love to see Django provide some sane defaults that people can use >> >> to deploy a site without having to make a bunch of decisions they >> >> don't totally understand. >> >> >> >> I have two thoughts on how it could be handled: >> >> >> >> 1. Similar to the template backends. You get Django's template system >> >> by default, but you're welcome to swap in Jinja2. I don't believe >> >> there is a one-size-fits-all webserver, but probably a >> >> one-size-fits-most. >> >> 2. Similar to cache/database backends. You define the backend you want >> >> to use and Django makes some sane choices for you and allows you to >> >> serve the site via some common `manage.py` command. >> >> >> >> For the first option, Gunicorn is a popular choice, but afaik it does >> >> not work on Windows. Waitress [1] is an interesting option for WSGI >> >> serving and daphne exists for ASGI. Whitenoise is a reasonable choice >> >> for serving static files. It doesn't yet support ASGI, but there has >> >> been some activity on that front [2]. >> >> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> [1] https://pypi.org/project/waitress/ >> >> [2] https://github.com/evansd/whitenoise/pull/359 >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAC6K9zk5PmcxYWXRdvco1pWXnO%2BHoYoYHf0pg5Mw%3DgmdefZArg%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAJwKpyTSGPJW%2BmdUADW8eBYaXakesHG9H9dkSzhLxWnCpBdH6A%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to django-develop...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAC6K9zmVDKcpM%3Dc9tyhrp2_K_dzLH5S9zMJcZSXduF9NkcoCKA%40mail.gmail.com >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. 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