2014-08-18 10:00 GMT+02:00 ngangsia akumbo <ngang...@gmail.com>: > then if drupal , jomlam has what django has then why are u building app > with django, that requires much coding? >
That's the point, django admin and a good "plugin" flora (called «django applications» in Django noosphère) you don't need to code much to build very different kind of apps. Whereas if you start with a CMS (even a Django CMS) you will have to follow the path of the CMS which might be good to learn or to prototype an application but isn't always the best solution as a software developer. I think there is a difference between the old days «webmaster» and today «developer». Not all «webmaster» became «developer». The people you are describing «tweaking a CMS» looks more like a «webmaster» than a «developer». A developer must be able to write any kind of app, not only Content Management Systems, but also applications like twitter, facebook, GNU MediaGoblin, a plugin system inside it's own project etc... but also take one week to read all the documentation *and code* of a given framework. I'm pretty sure that if you do a comparison of django CMS and PHP CMS in the wild, you would find that they are much more PHP CMS than Django CMS normalized to the number of developpers. This is not because Django or Python is not popular (since it is normalized to the number of developpers), but because Python people prefer to build their own application and take advantage of other Django applications instead of «hijacking» a CMS. I'm not saying that webmaster don't help the craft, I say that they have different skills and do different jobs. > > > On Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:01:02 PM UTC+1, Amirouche Boubekki wrote: > >> Reading my answer on a desktop computer, doesn't inspire me much. So I >> rewrite here... Sorry for the triple post... >> >> >> 2014-08-16 18:59 GMT+02:00 <amirouche...@gmail.com>: >> >> >>> >>> À Sat Aug 16 2014 12:04:20 GMT+0200 (CEST), ngangsia akumbo a écrit : >>> > I was having an argument about learning how to code from scratch and >>> using >>> > content management systems like joomla, dupal to build websites. >>> >> >> I sum up this as: >> >> > Learn a language by building something on top a CMS like joomla, drupal >> or django cms, amstrong... >> >> - This is one way maybe one of the best way. It's among the few >> recommendation I remember from university [1], it was basically was «get >> pixels in the browser quickly». Doing TDD would be best. This is the idea >> behind dynamic languages and their REPL. >> >> [1] another one is «WTF is NP & P. What matters are numbers!» >> >> - It is basically a copy/pasting code from cookbook and making them do >> the right thing cf. https://djangosnippets.org/ that's how I build my >> first enduser application (somekind of a social network) ten years ago in >> with PHP and mysql, way before any kind of computer science curriculum or >> webmaster course. >> >> - The good thing is that you have clear entry point to modify the >> behavior of the vanilla application. Those entry points are higher level: >> «add an item to the menu», «add item into the overview div»... When you >> start from scratch with only a framework you might stare blankly into an >> elite IDE without much inspiration, because you can start from many places: >> views, models, templates and how they interact make the number of possible >> application manyfolds. Most of the time I start with models, then create >> html mockup pages then glue them together with views. >> >> - You can get lost about what kind of application you can do, since you >> can do much more with a framework with the same coding level. >> >> Only downside is that with a framework you start with a lot of code to >> read «ark! there is an infinite recursion somewhere!», but this will help >> later. I understand more quickly code than dozens of examples use of some >> class. >> >> A ready made CMS, can also be used to do «gunshot coding» which basicly >> boils down to turn working code to crap code and getting back a new code >> that does something you want to do. Can also be understood as «copy & paste >> then fix it» >> >> >>> > >>> > This guy was telling they can make any web application using Joomla >>> the the >>> > other cms out there. >>> > He does not need to learn coding. >>> >> >> Yes. Most of my early application that me and my friend were using were >> just hacks of SPIP (ready made CMS for hacks) or wordpress, phpbb, >> dotclear... >> >> >>> > so if that was possible why do people still learn how to code from >>> scratch? >>> >> >> Performance and *sustainability. *Depending on what you do, you might >> not need to learn to code. How many stories I ear by friends and family of >> the kevin next door getting dozen bucks a month for installing and >> configuring one of the other of the >> >> *ready made solutions. * >> Usually, python people are not interested by performance, but are glad to >> have a perfect backend that can serve multiple devices with the same code. >> Does phpbb allow to retrieve the list of incoming message in JSON >> compatible with a ready made twitter client... >> >> Or a perfect *{{ name-the-application-of-the-kevin-next-door }}* user >> experience which needs specific models, views and templates? >> >> Or a CMS with hand crafted backends (and frontends >> <https://warehouse.python.org/project/pythonium/> ;) for every job in >> the entreprise without taking too much time to answer >> <http://www.exalead.fr/search/web/results/?q=python+CMS+date%3A2014&;>? >> >> >>> > >>> > So i need to get your opinion about this? >>> > >>> >> >> I don't know the state of the art in PHP, maybe they are framework that >> have what Django (and other python framework) have: >> >> - python language >> - cookbook and books >> - several cms on top of it >> - plugin system with numerous plugins freely available >> >> With the above you get almost all of what Drupal has, plus what I never >> found in the documentation, its «internals» aka. the framework part of >> drupal, which at the end of the day, is for people that want to get serious >> things done, is more interesting for the craft than yet another forum >> <http://progdupeu.pl/>. >> >> >> >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> >>> > -- >>> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Django users" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to django-users...@googlegroups.com. >>> > To post to this group, send email to django...@googlegroups.com. >>> >>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>> msgid/django-users/5383030b-f2bb-4a8a-b3ed-5064e462d966% >>> 40googlegroups.com. >>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> > >>> >>> -- >>> Envoyé depuis mon Jolla >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/6ff850d1-ee32-49d9-84d1-d38671c9f85b%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-users/6ff850d1-ee32-49d9-84d1-d38671c9f85b%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. 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